Re: 3 month uncontrable puppy returned to breeder
[Re: Mike Morrison ]
#160161 - 10/29/2007 05:53 AM |
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I understand why people are saying that the OP shouldn't mention that the new owners had anything to do with the dog's change in behavior.
But then what's to stop the new owners from requesting that the OP give them a different pup? I suppose it depends on how the OP's contract is worded.
This is a weird situation...because technically, it seems to me that the dog is legally the new owners until they decide to no longer keep the dog. I know they've mentioned that they were willing to rehome it, but unless they actually willing give up the dog, how can the OP legally keep it? Is there something in the contract that says that you have the right to regain ownership if you feel the animal is being harmed in any way? Because technically, right now, the OP is basically just "dog sitting." Ownership hasn't been transfered until the new owners agree they no longer want the dog, and I can see how, legally, this could be messy if you tick off the new owners.
The fact that they were willing to let the OP take the dog while they were on vacation, and the fact that they were talking about giving the dog up, pretty much seems to me that they would be okay with letting them keep the pup.
But I do think you should think in advance about what you're going to say to them if they ask if, instead of a refund, you provide them with a different pup...which they might do if you say that you think it's just a temperament problem that's "not their fault."
If they stick to their guns when they get back and say that they want another chance with the pup, then legally, I don't think you can keep the pup unless you can prove that you think the dog was being mistreated.
All of this is just being the "devil's advocate." Because I also believe that these people should not have the pup back. But it's probably not a bad idea to consider all the angles, just in case the new owner's decide to be snarky. Again, I think it comes down to how your contract is worded, and if you think these people are going to fight you.
Carbon |
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Re: 3 month uncontrable puppy returned to breeder
[Re: Amber Morgan ]
#160169 - 10/29/2007 07:59 AM |
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I know of a breeder who added words to the effect "replacement or refund at breeders discretion" into their contract after a similar problem. I agree that you should bend over backwards to convince these folks this is not the pup for them & further, to convince them none of your pups would fit the bill. If all that fails, I really like the suggestion of free lessons which include the Newfie. I wish you good luck, I imagine this is probably one of the hardest things for a breeder to deal with.
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Re: 3 month uncontrable puppy returned to breeder
[Re: Kathie Simond ]
#160260 - 10/29/2007 08:20 PM |
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I am really sorry for your trouble. You have obviously taken great care in raising your pups, and interviewing and supporting prospective owners. The women clearly is out of her depth with the pup and knows it, and if you allow her to come to the conclusion herself that a higher drive GSD is not appropriate for her home, I think you won't have too much trouble getting her to leave the dog with you and accept a refund. You can very reasonably explain that you are the very best person to raise, train, and rehome the dog. It seems, despite her faults as an owner, that she had good intentions, and knows she failed, and that should be worth something.
Also, if possible, in the future, try and rewrite your contract to cover a lot of poor outcomes. I think mine allowed the breeder to repossess the dog if it was mistreated in any one of a number of ways, but I am sure that making him fearful was not one of them. On the other hand, I would have had to beat my dog to make him fearful. But if your contract states that you the right to repossess the dog to prevent re-homing, you should be able to get the dog back in this case.
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Re: 3 month uncontrable puppy returned to breeder
[Re: Polly Gregor ]
#160284 - 10/30/2007 10:09 AM |
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Well, these are all nice suggestions, but why can't you just tell them to go to hell?
If the contract states that the dog is NOT to be rehomed, and they were in the process of doing just that when Kathie intervened, IMO, they've already breached contract, and are LUCKY to even get their money back. Possession is 9/10 of the law, as they say, and I know that often, in similar situations when someone is trying to get their dog back, LE does NOT get involved, stating that it's a civil matter. So, if the money is returned (and DO keep proof) and you already have the pup, chances are there will be no argument anyway, but if there is, kindly but firmly maintain that they were in breach of contract and that the pup will not be returned. I wonder if they were really going to try again or say that they were to shut Kathie up, then give her to the friends like they'd planned. Idiots.
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Re: 3 month uncontrable puppy returned to breeder
[Re: Jenni Williams ]
#160290 - 10/30/2007 10:31 AM |
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I agree with Jenni
They weren't happy with the dog, so chances are they will not use legal means to get it back.
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Re: 3 month uncontrable puppy returned to breeder
[Re: Shody Lytle ]
#160529 - 10/31/2007 06:41 PM |
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I read this thread last night. Had nightmares. I can't bear to read it in total again. The overwhelming feeling is, that I just want to cry for this poor pup. What a hard start. She has either been mishandled and or abused. The original purchasers' would have to go though hell before they'd ever see that dog again if were left up to me.
You may try the soft soaping, it's much more tactful and less confrontational, it might work. Don't back down though, if soft soaping doesn't work, stick to your guns with breach of contract (wasn't there just a high profile case involving rehomeing?). If they still need something to abuse and want the dog, tell them you have a lawyer on retainer and you're going to sue them, not only for breach of contract but for destroying a formally valueable asset.
Find any excuse, use any ploy, tell any story, but I beg you, do not let these people have that dog back. She's still young and may be able to recover, but has no chance with the $%#@ heads that lied to get the dog to begin with.
I'll board the dog for you. Ley them try to get her from me.
Randy
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Re: 3 month uncontrable puppy returned to breeder
[Re: randy allen ]
#160534 - 10/31/2007 07:23 PM |
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Reg: 10-10-2006
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I work for the AKC and my department deals with situations similar to these all the time. The AKC does not handle ownership disputes, however, it would be good if you have a copy of that signed contract and send them a full refund.
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Re: 3 month uncontrable puppy returned to breeder
[Re: randy allen ]
#160542 - 10/31/2007 08:38 PM |
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I read this thread last night. Had nightmares. I can't bear to read it in total again. The overwhelming feeling is, that I just want to cry for this poor pup. What a hard start. She has either been mishandled and or abused.
I agree. This post tugged at my heartstrings.
I'll board the dog for you. Ley them try to get her from me.
Randy
DITTO!!
Until The Tale of the Lioness is told, the Story will Always Glorfy the Hunter |
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Re: 3 month uncontrable puppy returned to breeder
[Re: Carol Boche ]
#163742 - 11/19/2007 10:10 AM |
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Reg: 05-09-2007
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The pup does not go back. There is only one way that I know of to develop fear and in a pup this young that was socialized and worked with this much prior to placement it sure isn't patience, positive training or fair consistent leadership. The wife cried. Don't care. Don't even care one bit. Refund the money and tell them you are keeping the pup. If they ask why, tell them because whatever they were doing was making an unstable animal. Period.
John
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Re: 3 month uncontrable puppy returned to breeder
[Re: John J. Miller ]
#165818 - 11/29/2007 09:55 PM |
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Reg: 10-08-2007
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I agree w/Jenni - they already were in breach of contract. Refund the money and tell them the truth. You don't need to accuse them of abuse, but obviously the dog was mishandled, whether intentionally or not, and there's nothing wrong w/stating this to the morons who bought the pup. Don't let the crocodile tears fool you. End of story. Good luck to you and the pup - she is MUCH better off staying w/you.
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