Dogs can be trained to do just about everything without "corrections" but I think what you consider a correction, what I consider a correction and what the DOG considers a correction may be 3 different things.
Much of positive training has to do with the skill of the trainer. I have found the more skilled the trainer, the less negative stuff needs to be involved in the training, no matter what the program or skill being worked on.
Michael West Webboard User Reg: 05-23-2007
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Quote: Daniel Audet
P.S.
I do realize that if you are training a scent dog, you most likely will keep things very close to Pure Positive.
--Dan
With out a doubt.
(this part is about bite work)For the most part it has been a long time sense i have given my dog anything but a verbal correction, then again i am letting my standers slack a bit (what can i do when the only two other people i work with only care about the bare minimum standard?)
Michael West Webboard User Reg: 05-23-2007
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Quote: cindy easton rhodes
Dogs can be trained to do just about everything without "corrections" but I think what you consider a correction, what I consider a correction and what the DOG considers a correction may be 3 different things.
Much of positive training has to do with the skill of the trainer. I have found the more skilled the trainer, the less negative stuff needs to be involved in the training, no matter what the program or skill being worked on.
OK, back to the thread....
Yes but can it be done with a working dog with bite-work?
(what can i say, i am stubborn until completly and udderly
proven wrong )
My definition of positive may be different than yours, so "positive only" training for some people may mean no collar corrections. Someone else may think this means no physical touch to the dog and no verbal corrections and only rewards for correct responses. The dog may have a different idea altogether.
Get my drift? I am not attempting to answer the question about whether it can or can't be done but getting you to think about what this really means.
Positive? What does it really mean? it's one of those terms like "natural"..... lots of grey areas.
Matthew Grubb Webboard User Reg: 09-27-2002
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If there ever was a topic that screamed.. “it depends on the dog” it’s this one! I’ve seen “purely positive” drills for outs and recalls that work quite well. Most are based on the theory that dogs learn the fastest through self discovery and build upon that premise.
Say you are working down’s in motion.. the dog is prevented without correction through use of a long line and harness from biting the decoy unless he downs. As soon as you get the behavior you want (the down) the dog is released to bite the decoy.
It works.. and it works well.. it just takes time and much patience!
Michael West Webboard User Reg: 05-23-2007
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Everything depends on the dog
Alright let me refrase again Yes there is a lot of things you can train without corrections but i find these parts corrections are needed (this is basically copied from the forum i posted on):
-First i have not seen a dog trained with positive training where the dog still views the handler as the Pack Leader. I am sorry i just haven't. I am sure i will be challenged on this but based on my experience i have not seen it.
-When your dog is in drive and wants to get to to that decoy the dog has tunnel vision. There is very little that dog hears or sees besides the decoy.
-When the dog is actually on a bite how are you going to call that dog off. When the decoy is the ultimate reward why would he ever give it up?
-A key thing a lot of people don't think of is that the dog has to have a quick "out" (release of the decoy, stop bitting, you get the idea) The reason behind this is not that It looks good, it is because if the dog is still biting after the suspect has giving up what do you think is going to happen? The suspect will sue the police department, claim cruel and unusual punishment, unnecessarily use of force, and in the end the dog will be put down and you will be with out a job.
Old earth dog Bob Scott would be a pretty good source on this too, IMO.
You might shoot him a PM or maybe he'll see here.
He has taken a sport dog pretty far with no corrections (you'll have to ask his definition of correction). I think his club uses positive training. I would be interested in his opinion on the subject.
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Re: Bite Work with Positive training only.
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Yes there is a lot of things you can train without corrections but i find these parts corrections are needed (this is basically copied from the forum i posted on):
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