Carolyn, your dog is confused.

First, before using either the prong or the e-collar to correct her for not sitting from a down, make absolutely SURE she knows HOW to sit from a down. Remember, corrections only come AFTER you are 100% sure the dog KNOWS the command and how to do it. I believe she doesn't know the sit from a down well enough and shouldn't be corrected for not doing it, but guided back up to a sit with a treat.

Secondly, don't use the prong and the e-collar at the same time. Either one or the other.

Thirdly, along with her confusion at not knowing the sit from a down, getting stim-ed for something she doesn't have 100% knowledge of, getting pronged and stim-ed in the same session, and hearing the word "No" constantly....well, I think even a human would be confused with all that going on. I know I got confused just reading it.

So drop the "no", drop the prong and the e-collar for now, concentrate on teaching her the sit from a down with a treat, make sure that she knows it completely and does it every time with a treat, first by guiding her to the sit with the treat, then by standing back a few feet with the treat in her vision and seeing if she'll respond to the command. If she doesn't respond when you step back, even with the treat, she doesn't know it well enough to start getting corrected for not doing it.

Don't consider one correct response to sitting from a down as 100% knowledge. Make sure she knows it under no distractions, 100%. Don't just do this particular command in a training session, break it up with other commands. Keep the sessions 2-3 minutes.

You didn't mention how old your dog is?

Sandy is rite. I freak when i hear someone say he knows better lmao they know what they are taught never assume your dog was born knowing.Prong and E-collar last last last choicetry Ivan Balabanovs video Obediance without Conflict "Clear Communication"

I am not sure what would make you jump to the conclusion that she doesn't know how to sit from a down. Kayla is 1 1/2, we started her training at three months old and at a year finish basic obedience and passed the CGC test. We have been very busy the last few months (my husband is away training with his army unit and set to deploy to Afganistan in February) so we haven't been to many advanced obedience classes and I hoped to continue her training at home right now and then next summer get her out to public places like parks and work on these things under more and more disractions. I know she is confused right now, but it over the stim and not the commands that are being asked of her. And that is what I am asking for help with.

Is this your dog or your husbands wondering if the dog misses him and maybe is a little confused off what happened to her pack. just a thought you know your dog better than anybody

Hi Carolyn,

I think your right and the dog is confused about the stem. He doesn’t yet realize the stem is a correction and its coming from you, not the ground. I’ll have to watch the DVD again also, because I thought Ed started out using the pop on the leash at the same time as the stem to teach the dog to associaliate the stem with the correction and that it was coming from him. That’s how I taught my dog anyway, only I used his flat collar instead of the prong. I gave a light pop at the same time as the stem and it didn’t take long for my dog to stop looking at the ground and look to me when he felt the stem. Once he did that, then I moved forward to off-leash work.

Well, she is supposed to be both our dog, but I do think she like him better. He thinks she listens to him better, but the only area I see that is if she starts to take off out of the yard she does seem to listen to his "no, get back here" and doesn't usually listen to when I say the same thing. As far as other obedience things I think she listens to us about the same. I know things are very stressful at home right now and I guess dogs can pick that up. Also the one thing that is definately different for her is her outside/exercise time. That is cut in half with my husband gone and right now with it being dark by the time I get home from work it is cut even more. That is one of the main reasons I am really trying to get the remote collar training done, so that I can take her out at night in the dark and let her run around in the yard and have some method of correction if she does start to leave the yard. We live in the country and once she leaves the yard I can't see her.

Peggy
Thanks for your reply. I also thought it was recommended to use some collar corrections in order to help the dog start to understand that the stim was also a correction, but here on this board I was told I was doing over kill and to step back and stop all the corrections and go back to using treats to train. Based on the basics Ed teaches we are in the correction stage and should be doing it with more distractions, but I wanted to get her used to the new correction (stim) and then continue with training under distration. I think I just need to continue working with her and the remote collar in short session and be patience that it might take a few more session than I originally thought.

Hey Carolyn,

You can try a long line, but I wouldn't have a dog off leash without a well proofed recall if I knew that dog was a flight risk. One of my dogs is totally unreliable off leash (sounds like your girl) and I will never have him off of a lead. I know how you feel about not being comfortable walking her alone at night. Have you considered getting up earlier in the mornings to walk her? What about increasing mental stimulation (in addition to what you're already doing with the ecollar)? 4 or 5 training sessions in one day will leave most dogs pretty sapped. That might help, till your husband gets back and you can walk her together.

Also, she does listen to him more. He's got a natural advantage, he's bigger, with a deeper voice. He automatically gets a few points towards rank because of this, you are going to have to work harder than he does to be afforded the same respect.

Isn't that nice?

 Quote: peggybayer

Hi Carolyn,

I'll have to watch the DVD again also, because I thought Ed started out using the pop on the leash at the same time as the stem to teach the dog to associaliate the stem with the correction and that it was coming from him.

I just recently watched the DVD and I'm 95% positive that Ed did not use a collar correction along with the stim. He did, however, label it with a NO first, like in this quote from Keith:

 Quote: keith larson

"Starbuck Come" - No movement
"No"
Stim at 70 - she hopped up from a laying position

"Starbuck Come" - She came right over to me with the hose running.
"Yes! Good Girl"

Of course, differnt things work for different dogs, but I don't think you really need to do a prong AND a stim. I think that could easily make the correction too high.

If the dog knows that "NO" is followed by a correction, then in my experience, it's pretty clear to them pretty quickly that the NO followed by the stim is a correction from you.

BUT I whole-heartedly agree with everything Sandy said here :

 Quote: sandy moore

Carolyn, your dog is confused.

First, before using either the prong or the e-collar to correct her for not sitting from a down, make absolutely SURE she knows HOW to sit from a down. Remember, corrections only come AFTER you are 100% sure the dog KNOWS the command and how to do it. I believe she doesn't know the sit from a down well enough and shouldn't be corrected for not doing it, but guided back up to a sit with a treat.

Secondly, don't use the prong and the e-collar at the same time. Either one or the other.

Thirdly, along with her confusion at not knowing the sit from a down, getting stim-ed for something she doesn't have 100% knowledge of, getting pronged and stim-ed in the same session, and hearing the word "No" constantly....well, I think even a human would be confused with all that going on. I know I got confused just reading it.

So drop the "no", drop the prong and the e-collar for now, concentrate on teaching her the sit from a down with a treat, make sure that she knows it completely and does it every time with a treat, first by guiding her to the sit with the treat, then by standing back a few feet with the treat in her vision and seeing if she'll respond to the command. If she doesn't respond when you step back, even with the treat, she doesn't know it well enough to start getting corrected for not doing it.

Don't consider one correct response to sitting from a down as 100% knowledge. Make sure she knows it under no distractions, 100%. Don't just do this particular command in a training session, break it up with other commands. Keep the sessions 2-3 minutes.

The long line has allways worked for me.I start off tieing the dog to a pole and working he trys to run he gets stopped real fast doesnt take long to learn then leave the line on the dog and take him off the pole work him with the long line. Similar to Mr Frawleys table work.The dog teaches itself.