Hi Connie, the only thing is that *what I think I understand* is that this issue is a distraction issue and if we always stay where no other dogs are, then....how will we ever work it out?

Or?
thx!
Em

 Quote: randy allen

Em,
You say she's okay when meeting other dogs that are off leash? Does that mean they actually come together to meet and everything is copacetic? And how is she when meeting people without dogs?
She just sounds very doggy to me, not agressive. You can try the watch me game; keep it loose and easy, don't telegraph your angst down the leash.

hi Randy, yes amazingly, so far of all the off leash dogs that have come up, things have been fine. I mean, she's a bit nervous, but well behaved. There are 2 Chihuahua's that dive bomb us when we walk by on a semi-regular basis. They come flying, yapping out of their yard ( no owners in sight) and buzz around her ankles barking. She is not happy about it, but she does keep going without the violent reaction.

When I worked with that trainer before, we met at a dog park and walked her ON LEASH inside the dog park, so she had TONS of all kinds of unleashed dogs coming up to her, and she was ok.
The only one she had a prob with was this one young male who tried to mount her. She did object to that, but did not fight or show teeth.

Another thing she does really well is walk by fenced yards with a barking nutso dog in it. We walk by, on loose leash cool as a cucumber....she pays the dogs inside the fence no attention. OTOH if she's in our yard and a dog walks by outside OUR fence, she does bark and run the fence. (She lives in the house btw)

As far as people, she's fine. Cool, not overly affectionate with them unless she knows them. We walk right by all kinds of people, all shapes sizes and colors, on bicycles or on foot, and she is fine. They love her at the vets, because she lets them do anything to her with no protest.

The fellow I trained with also said he didn't feel she was aggresive. But yet there is that behaviour I noted. She really does spazz out and scream.
I can hold her, but I don't want her to get a bad rep here in my inner city neighborhood. Pits are kind of a hot topic around here and I want mainly to keep her safe and "off radar".

btw the reason I have her is that we do hve this pit bull over-population problem here and she was not having luck finding a foster home. My old part Rott had died ( a much bigger dog) and since Pep's disposition was so nice I figured I could handle her. And I can. 99% of the time.

Today we walked to the vet's office and around the parking lot there. (Its close-by so its one of our walk destinations.) A leashed beagle came out the door a bit after we walked by and she turned around and looked at him, but she kept moving!
I was pretty happy about that.

I DO think I need to train "look at me" better.

Maybe I'll concentrate on that and on her recall, and see if that doesn't help.

thanks!

 Quote: emalvarez

Hi Connie, the only thing is that *what I think I understand* is that this issue is a distraction issue and if we always stay where no other dogs are, then....how will we ever work it out?

I said

 Quote: connie sutherland

Have you considered walking her in no-dog areas while you work on this gradually? ....

I did NOT say "always" anything.

Desensitizing her to leashed dogs (if that's the trigger) isn't something I'd do where there are a lot of dogs.

So.... what I would consider would be walking her for her regular walks in no-dog areas while I was working on the problem.

For working on the problem:
I'm not clear on the exact response, but let's say it was hackling and posturing whenever a leashed dog came into view. The way I would work on this would be in a low-dog-traffic area, where I had the distance between the other dog and mine under my control.

I would find it too difficult to work on in an area where there were a lot of dogs around..... too much.

I agree with you that avoiding the issue is not training. My comment was meant to convey that starting the work in a very controlled setting might be best.

 Quote: EmAlvarez

Today we walked to the vet's office and around the parking lot there. (Its close-by so its one of our walk destinations.) A leashed beagle came out the door a bit after we walked by and she turned around and looked at him, but she kept moving!
I was pretty happy about that.

Like that!

Nipping the focus on the other dog BEFORE is even becomes foucus is a great thing to practice, and not so easy when you're walking in a heavy-dog-traffic area.

When she turned to look, what did you do?

 Quote: connie sutherland

Like that!

Nipping the focus on the other dog BEFORE is even becomes foucus is a great thing to practice, and not so easy when you're walking in a heavy-dog-traffic area.

When she turned to look, what did you do?

Hi Connie, sorry I misunderstood before. Thanks for clarifying.

When she turned I told her "heel" to keep her going, to remind her that's what she needed to be doing. When she turned and slightly hesitated again, I told her "NOOOOOO" which she knows is the prequel to a leash pop if she does it again, so she didn't do it again, and kept going. I did step up the pace a bit, though, too.

Yeah I do see your point about heavy dog traffic areas not being too good for right now. We walk right when I get home from work, which is 4 pm or so, before most of the real heavy dog-walking traffic - so I guess we'll stick with that for now.

thanks again...
Am going to watch the Obedience DVD some more now. Need to absorb it more.

thx!

 Quote: emalvarez

... When she turned I told her "heel" to keep her going, to remind her that's what she needed to be doing. When she turned and slightly hesitated again, I told her "NOOOOOO" which she knows is the prequel to a leash pop if she does it again, so she didn't do it again, and kept going. I did step up the pace a bit, though, too.

All good!

One thing is that with this particular challenge (dog-dog aggression?), I tend to correct instantly, although very calmly; no excitement at all.

No hesitation before returning focus to you, no looking at, no turning towards, NO focus....... My goal is indifference.

And I'm with you on keeping the stride steady, with no meandering. I'd be careful not to give it any flavor of hastening away, but you will be able to see the other dog from a good distance when you're in a low-dog-density area, and you can already have a brisk forward motion in effect.

Connie,
Do you really think this is dog-dog agression? If so, wouldn't it extent to dogs off lead as well? While I agree it does sound like a pain in the johnny come lately, I don't think it really comes close to the seriousness of dog-dog agression. The brat just wants to meet the other dog, that is inless it's the leash that sets the dog off. Em how does the dog do meeting people walking a leash?
Interupting before engagement is the proper course at any rate.

At lest I think so.
Randy

 Quote: randy allen

Connie,
Do you really think this is dog-dog agression? If so, wouldn't it extent to dogs off lead as well? While I agree it does sound like a pain in the johnny come lately, I don't think it really comes close to the seriousness of dog-dog agression. The brat just wants to meet the other dog, that is inless it's the leash that sets the dog off. Em how does the dog do meeting people walking a leash?
Interupting before engagement is the proper course at any rate.

At lest I think so.
Randy

Yes, you're right. I think I said that I was unclear about what was really going on. If I didn't, I certainly should've. :>

But yeah, "Interupting before engagement is the proper course at any rate." I agree with you.

I agree that dog-dog aggression and leashed frustration can look very similar. I agree with you, Randy, it doesn't seem like the dog is actually dog aggressive.

My Corgi and GSD would exhibit similar reactions when a strange dog was walking towards them. However, my GSD wants to kill, the Corgi wants to meet. But the Corgi looked and sounded nasty until he actually got to meet the other dog. Then it was all flat ears and butt wags.

With the Corgi, like Randy said, interruption before engagement in the form of properly timed corrections worked really well. With the GSD, it amped him up to a madness (both with prongs).

With the GSD, I did as Connie suggested and worked on this issue under controlled circumstances...I actually set the situation up with friends and an e-collar so that I knew the strange dog didn't have an obnoxious owner that would just release their dog (that happened once!), and we also had prearranged distances and scenarios to work with so that we could correct before the correction would actually become a stimulant.

I still work on this issue with him now, but even though I so far haven't had to use it, I keep a DD collar on him on for walks into high-traffic areas with strange dogs and even stranger owners! But the e-collar, controlled situation work really worked dramatically. The Corgi was a lot easier to "fix" since his intentions were actually mellower, despite all the noise.

At any rate, a controlled training session (or many) would be a good (safe) start regardless of what the dog's true agenda is, IMO.

Amber,
You and Connie are both right on the controled situations of course. Its just makes life and training easier.
I didn't really mean to be contentious about anything, but in the light of a new day I can see how it could easily been taken that way. Sorry if I rubbed the wrong way. Didn't mean to.
Hope the op lets us know how things work out.
Randy