Quote: Mike J Schoonbrood

 Quote:

Then, I asked if my GF would be above the dog in the dog's mind, and he told me they would be even in rank to the dog. Does this sound good or bad?

Be careful there man. You know, as soon as you let em sleep on your bed the dominance starts!!

I did notice that, Mike!

Flip-Flop!

WTF! I just don't understand what happened since last time we talked. I called the trainer and went through the same questions, but this time the answers were different! I don't understand how this could be; it almost seems like I dreamed it up or something?!

Anyway, this time with the dog agression question, he told me to order a wire basket muzzle, and that we would work through the problem with corrections and praise. This sounds much better, I swear he told me about putting the mad dog in a down before, but maybe I am just daydreaming again...

Then, about the GF thing, he told me that the GF would be above the dog, and that it was a good thing for a family dog to be handled by the GF to provide consistancy. I also agree with this, but what about the they are equal thing?

I don't know. Let's pretend that what I thought he said never happened. The GF is now above the dog, and we are going to work on the agression with corrections and praise. He's a good trainer, now...right?

So confused...

Well, Rick, that's why I said tell him you won't be using him...because it's just possible that you misunderstood him. A lot of info was being thrown at you, and it's easy to mix-up scenarios/suggestions. Not to say he didn't flip-flop; that's entirely possible. But, it's also possible that you've got too much info from too many places to keep it straight. You'll know what to run from when/if you see it.

Any chance you could watch this guy teach a class or two, and without Bella present? Seeing him work dogs may give you a better idea of what he's about.

Jenni, I can't thank you enough for that suggestion. I am pretty easy-going in person, so I am glad you reminded me to tell him. Actually, what I did was just re-ask the questions the same way I did before. (If I remember...LOL! )

We ended up spending about 40 mins. talking about several issues, one of which being diet. I loved it when he said, "What kind of dog food are you feeding Bella?!" Priceless!

He said he felt I was not providing some vitamins that the dog needed. I pressed him, and he reccomended a food that is definately not kibble, but some organic all-natural food. But it is cooked. He was going through the many vitamin additives when I stopped him and said, "Wait, are all of these additives on top of the all natural, organic meat that is in the food. If the meat is truely all-natural, why would they have to add all of these vitamins?" Well, it is because those things are cooked out of the meat.

He then said he would send me a number to a nutritionalist in CA that he knew, and he said she would spend time with me to make sure my diet contained everything needed! I was really happy that he admitted he was in over his head in this area, and it really added to his credibility in my mind!

More to come on my work break...

Is the trainer reading this thread? Or was the past conversation just a dream?
I think watching a couple of classes is a good idea.

Hmmmm very curious...very curious, indeed!

Back from work-

I think I should add here that the time I talked to him was probably about 4-5 months ago, and I am sure I have mixed something up that he said. But it still seems really weird...

The only thing I wanted to add was that I asked him about using my ecollar, and he told me he didn't want me to use it. I explained that I wasn't going to use escape training, and that I would just use it as I would a prong, but he still didn't want me to use it saying, "I have been doing this class the same way for 15 years, and I have had good success with it." Fine.

He also told me that he didn't have much experience with ecollars, but that he would not hesitate to use one with a very dominant dog. He also told me that he has recommened them to people before. He said as class goes along, maybe we can talk about the application of the ecollar. He agreed with me that teaching her to come using the pager would be okay, and I think I will just focus on that until this CGC class is over. I really appriciate the honesty from him; he just tells me what he feels is right, and doesn't BS me when he doesn't know about something.

I think I will go ahead and give this trainer a shot.

Rick,
I'm going to venture another opinion here.

From his own statments, it sounds as though your potential instructor lacks experience - if he hasn't used the e-collar as a training tool much, he's generally inexperienced.

It may be that he's taught the class the same way for 15 years, but I know that for myself and many other trainers, * a lot* has changed in our general understanding of canine drives and behavior in the past 15 years.
And this new knowledge has changed training methods for the better. So if someone says that they haven't changed their training style in 15 years, a loud alarm bell goes off in my head....

You owe it to your dog to seek out the best training available ( and I know that you already believe that ) so maybe it'd be in everyone's best interested to keep loooking for a class that uses the standards newer than the 1980's.

Good luck!

Agree w/Will, but to play devil's advocate, was the trainer thinking you were just being too hard on Bella w/out good reason? If he doesn't know her, it's POSSIBLE (but not probable) that he MAY have been starting small and working his way up, if needed to an ecollar . Just a small possibility, but I have met trainers like that who are ok, but want to first see the dog sans equipment for evaluation.

OTOH, he may just be stodgy and unwilling to grow and change, and you'll run the other way when you watch his class.