Quote:

Originally posted by Omerhaus:
. . . Also, the club members compete on a national level and have top sport dogs with very high drive, and my dog's genetics are somewhat different. . . .

Don't let anyone intimidate you <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> . If you start feeling "second class" or "different", your dog will pick up on it. Whatever you do -- do it confidently -- even if it's wrong <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> .

Ellen, Thanks again for your support. I definitely believe that you have to believe in your dog or they will pick up on it. I think I have a good dog, but I do believe she is different in that her genetics are not for a high prey drive, point dog. I don't think that makes her a bad dog, and the challenge will be to find a training approach that will work for her drive package.
Van Camp,
Can you say a little more about what you mean?

This thread reminded me of a couple of different arguments I've heard with regard to the dog feeding off of the handler's confidence, or lack of.

I've seen it advocated that the handler and their protection dog should BOTH encounter stress in THEIR training. The argument for this is that the handler must learn to maintain their composure and communicate with their dog during the most stressful of circumstances. After all, the situation where one would truly need their protection dog to protect them would presumably be a high stress crisis, right?

Does that seem like a correct train of thought? It seems that way to me. But then again, aren't there people who, if faced with a home invasion, would absolutely panic? Can you or I say with certainty that we would be cool and calm and properly direct our dog after awaking in the middle of the night to the sound of someone entering our home? I don't know about the rest of you, but despite all of the practice, I'd be scared to death. Let's hope I would be up to the challenge, right? Anway, I have to believe there are people with dynamite dogs who themselves would be so scared as to be unable to direct their dog. My feeling though is that, speaking for myself and my dog, even if I were to be petrified with fright, my dog would fight hard. Do any of you think that an otherwise "good" protection dog would shut down merely because their handler did?

That was SEE THEM not SEEM THEM by the way.

Omerhaus- what info do you want about which post?

Patrick- A "good" protection dog that has "good" protection training will, and should, fight on it's home turf no matter what the handler is doing. That is something that you train for. The Ideal response for you in that situation is to be calling the police and taking more serious protective measures(arming yourself, gathering your family, escaping, whatever your plan may be.), while your dog has just provided you with the time to do so. ( Or very likely, just gave his life, for you to do so.) I try not to get to far off of a topic but I think this is an important point. If you realistically want your dog to be for protection you had better train, in advance, for your dog to be able to fight independantly. Even if your dog has "the genetics" to do it you still need to train, train, train. That goes for us hairless apes as well, practice your responses to a bad situation.

Omerhaus:

Take your dog to the club when no one else is there. Work her alone. After she works well for you introduce distractions (people, noises) slowly. This usually works well.

 Quote:

Originally posted by VanCamp:
A "good" protection dog that has "good" protection training will, and should, fight on it's home turf no matter what the handler is doing. . . . . you had better train, in advance, for your dog to be able to fight independantly.

There's the key IMO <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> -- "independently". Training must not be such that it detracts from the dog's ability to act & react *appropriately* if you want the dog to be capable of performing on its own initiative (independently) when the situation calls for it.

"Independently" does NOT have to mean "out of control" either -- independence & control do NOT have to be self-exclusionary. It means that training has not turned the dog into a robot only capable of performing on command. It means that training has been done on a cooperative basis (as opposed to command/control only) where the dog has learned that you & he work together -- if the dog needs help, he knows he can count on you to support him; and, if the dog sees that you need help, he knows he should come to support you. This does not mean that the dog's initiative (independent response to a situation) cannot be overridden by a command from you. IME a really good, well-educated dog taught to work cooperatively with you has LESS of a problem switching back & forth from independent mode to command mode than a dog trained via command/control only.