Quote: mallory kwiatkowski

i think most if not all of us respect non-working(as long as they are well bred) GSD's. Some may have a bloodline preference, some may not like american gsd's(well, who would.....) but any service dog is a service dog, and worthy of respect.

Yes, and a service dog would not be considered non-working.... not by a long shot.

I'm glad that Susan posted, because we have a nice section of the board dedicated just to service dog training, and maybe not every member realizes it.

And Susan, I too loved reading about your dogs. One of the seizure alert dogs who were being shaped up for ob last year was a GSD ... there were several breeds, including "multi-breed." "Well-bred" had zero to do with it, unless the term was used for its other definition, to mean polite. Pedigree sure wasn't a factor.

I think there was a post just recently showing a video of a service dog with a little boy in a wheelchair. Quite moving actually. I'm more of the "village idiot" when it comes to training and everyone has given me nothing but respect and advice. With that said I can only imagine your dogs getting the highest respect that can be given. Welcome!

Susan,

My GSD is a pet, pure and simple. He'll never be a Schutzhund dog, a PPD, a police service dog, or a therapy dog or an assistance dog. He's a family pet. But the people here have always treated me with respect.

Now, some may have thought that I was the village idiot, but not my dog

Susan, the German Shepherd breed is, to me, the king of the dog world, and so I understand your post and you said some things beautifully. They are the most versatile of the breeds, although of course not every GSD can do everything that the breed as a whole is known for.

I can't see my current GSD being a Seeing Eye Dog, for example. But that's not the service I want or need from him. But I have owned GSDs that would not be able to do what my current dog can do. One GSD I had would have made a wonderful Seeing Eye Dog, in fact she was held back from the litter for that purpose.

There may be some people here, very very few, who believe the only good GSD is a high drive GSD. If that's so, I wouldn't at all agree with that as it takes away from the breed and its ability to do everything well. But I believe most people who understand the breed itself understand that to only have one type of GSD is not in the best interest of the breed. High drive GSDs are needed, so are lower drive and docile ones.

There IS a place for American GSDs, German/DDR GSDs, Czech GSDs, working lines and show lines. Conformation notwithstanding and a different subject, the heart of the GSD is what is important and is a large part of the original plan for the GSD....solid, stable, capable, brave, loyal....in whatever work for which a particular dog is intended.

The individual temperament (you have to factor in breeding) needs to fit the work. But in whatever work the dog goes on to do, the heart should be brave and loyal, the mind should be solid, the attitude should be stable, and the dog should be capable, his abilities for a particular work noticeable. Even in the job of being a pet and a companion for children, the temperament needs to fit the job.

I trust the abilities and intelligence of German Shepherds more than any other breed. You can breed and raise them for any type of work, and they'll be able to do it.

The whole point of the GSD breed is you can get the dog you need for any job you need done.

 Quote: Rich Pallechio

Susan,

Now, some may have thought that I was the village idiot, but not my dog

Is there room for more than one? :laugh:

I have had true experts in scent work on this board help me teach my pet dog scent games. Games! Folks that track criminals, do search and rescue, or train MWDs teaching me how to play games with my terrier that won't even dig. Very humbling that they would take the time to even glance at my questions.

I also really enjoyed your post. I could picture your dog, paws on the wheelchair enjoying every rough pat he got. Also humbling.

I hope you change your mind about what you interpret to be insults. I would like to hear more about your dogs.

Here's the link to a thread showing a marked lack of respect for a kindhearted, friendly GSD, and attempts to convert this dog to a totally different personality:

http://www.leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/132365/page/0/fpart/1

My point is that contempt for this kind of dog implies contempt for assistance dogs, for whom this type of temperament is essential. If the dog so bitterly complained about in this thread has good nerve and an off switch, he would probably make an outstanding assistance dog (or therapy dog).

I would be happy to answer questions about assistance dog training. (I am a dog trainer and did some of the training of my dogs.) The most important part of an assistance dog is temperament, however. Three things are absolutely necessary:

1. Good nerve.

2. A highly sociable disposition.

3. An off switch.

Without these, all the training in the world will not produce a safe, happy assistance dog. It also helps if the dog has a sense of humor, since service dog work is full of surprises. (This can be taken too far, however, as in the time Jake amused himself by sticking his head under a bathroom partition and leering up at the occupant next to me. I wasn't paying attention to him and was alerted to his indiscretion by a shriek. I have to admit it's hard to apologize when you're trying not to laugh.)

Flexibility is important, as well. Obedience freaks, in my experience, do not make very good service dogs. They do great until something totally wacko happens, like when a 2-year-old suddenly crams his hand down the dog's ear (which happened to Jake--he just wagged his tail and stood there with a goofy look on his face while the kid's mom extracted his hand from Jake's ear).

Finally, if the dog has faultless judgment in assessing people, you have the ideal assistance dog.

This kind of temperament, as you can imagine, is very hard to find. It took me years to find the right dogs.

 Quote: Susan Shott

Here's the link to a thread showing a marked lack of respect for a kindhearted, friendly GSD, and attempts to convert this dog to a totally different personality:

http://www.leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/132365/page/0/fpart/1

I read a bunch of experienced dog people telling her that this is the way that dog is. She wasn't thrilled, but nobody else attacked the dog or wanted to change its personality.

Was it just her opinion you disagree with or what you feel is the whole board opinion?

 Quote: Susan Shott

This can be taken too far, however, as in the time Jake amused himself by sticking his head under a bathroom partition and leering up at the occupant next to me. I wasn't paying attention to him and was alerted to his indiscretion by a shriek. I have to admit it's hard to apologize when you're trying not to laugh.

Edited to add:
Being the owner of a social butter fly I understand what Judy was saying. It obviously came off wrong at the front of the thread, but seemed cleared up in the end. At least I thought so....

Susan, I also see what you mean.

I think you both have valid points, but have/had some misunderstanding on both sides.

 Quote: Michael_Wise

I read a bunch of experienced dog people telling her that this is the way that dog is. She wasn't thrilled, but nobody else attacked the dog or wanted to change its personality.

Was it just her opinion you disagree with or what you feel is the whole board opinion?

Of course it's not the whole board's opinion, and there were posts that pointed out the futility and unfairness of trying to change the dog. But there were also a lot of posts advocating changing the dog's friendliness, including a post that recommended e-collar corrections and a post that suggested bringing such severe conflict to the dog that he might go into avoidance. All to punish a dog for a temperament and behavior that would make him an absolute gem elsewhere.

 Quote: susan shott

Here's the link to a thread showing a marked lack of respect for a kindhearted, friendly GSD, and attempts to convert this dog to a totally different personality:

http://www.leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/132365/page/0/fpart/1

First, I believe that many people misread what was desired (which was *not* to change the dog to a totally different personality), and second, even if I took issue with the original poster's concerns/goals, I still would not read that thread and glean this from it: "I have been blessed with two such GSDs, both of whom would be viewed with contempt as 'village idiots' by many of the people here.."


I think your anecdote about your dog in the ladies' room is hilarious.

And I think it's great that you have posted your willingness to help members who have service dog questions.

I would *not* equate one thread from a year ago with the general tenor of the board.

I wouldn't equate ANY thread with the general tenor of a board of 10,000 members.

"Implied contempt" .... I gotta go with Michael when he says there was misunderstanding on both sides.

I hope that you see from the reponse to *this* thread that there is solid support here for assistance dogs. The right dog for the right job -- I think maybe that's the big factor for us all.

I have a Mr. Friendly GSD. My biggest challenge with him was not accepting food offerings from people outside the house without my OK. He is otherwise pretty perfect for his job, which is to demonstrate to other dogs basic manners and his calm and laid-back demeanor.

It's a public forum. You will see all kinds of responses.