I don't like the idea of waiting till the day comes. I like to keep the pup on a long lead throughout his early fromal training because it allows you to guide him when things get iffy. Unless the dog's drive is such that he'll recall (and you are in a place without any distractions) for the ball/prey object.

If he isn't on lead, and he is distracted or being difficult, then I don't use a formal obedience command, I use something informal. . .his name, come on boy, come over here, come to me, etc.

I try not to ever let the dog fail (read also as choose to disregard) a recall command.

Hey Vagabund, sounds like your pup has developed a new imprint. No big deal if the dog was doing a decent recall before.

Survey says that the mistake that caused this to happen is your fault.

Rule number 1, never risk failure or non complience when you as a handler can dictate the outcome.

No long line is your first mistake.

Next I would re write the whole come command and insert a fox 40 whistle blast as the sound association to inprint a better response to recall. You can still inter mix voice commands.

The reward has to be out of this world to the pup.

Example, Ellie my new mal bitch pup from Cindy is driven to bite and bite and then some. When she hears a whistle and or a rattle stick. She drops everything imeadiatly to get to me.

Why? She wants the bite that I will give her. Food works also with her but her preference is to bite so that becomes the reward motivation.

This type of recall also sets the stage for more involved up close training and that is what it is all about.

Get a grasp on the concept that I have presented and you then have the key that unlocks real training fun and accomplishment.

Establish response time and not just the response. Your example of the pup needing a second recall to retain the focus tells me that the problem is within yourself and not the pup.

Imprints work both ways and if your not looking to avoid a mistaken imprint behaviour. Then you are in fact now training the pup to come on the second command.

Jerry Cudahy

Jerry, very good information! In reading this post I saw some similarity to early problems that I had had when Bella was a pup. If I had know then to target her love to bite as a reward, I might have then saved myself alot of headaches!!

I had always thought that treats or praise was supposed to be the things used as rewards, and I didn't think outside of the box on that one. Also, I had never even heard of a long line when I first got her!! Never mind having one to use! LOL

Thanks to the experts on this board, and diligence on my part to learn as much as I can from experienced people, I have learned so much in a relatively short time!!

so vancamp , do you use this method throughout his entire life? you dont train him to recall without lead on?, What I am getting at is in reference to Eds article on recall, where he says it needs to be 100%, you can never let him get away with not recalling, you get him and you correct him all the way back to the spot where you called him originally. I dont think he meant this for puppies,and I do what you posted earlier, use an informal command when he is off lead so as to never let him not recall, when (age of dog) does this training transferr over to the training advocated in the article by ed?

I said,"I like to keep the pup on a long lead throughout his early fromal training because it allows you to guide him when things get iffy."

So NO you don't have to have the dog on lead for his entire life, WTF?

But up to and throughout the correction phase you should have the line on. You have to decide when it is time to start a proofing/distraction phase with corrections.

Generally if the dog always comes without distractions, then you start working with distractions and correcting the dog for ignoring commands. . .all on the long line. Then there will come a point in time where the dog will always come, even with bigger and more interesting distractions. . .but you still have the long line. Then you have to phase out the line step by step (or use an e-collar).

There isn't a magic age when it just comes together and you start correcting the dog so nobody can just say, "Hey, at six months start correcting the dog".

Might also be a good idea to post a link to the article that you are talking about Dan.

early fromal training because it allows you to guide him when things get iffy.

It would also be a good idea for me to read your earlier post correctly. somehow the above didnt get read earlier...my fault.

sorry , I couldnt find the article either, although I remember vividly the contents.

I realize there is no magic age that all of a sudden you can add compulsion to the recall, But definitely 3 months is to young. What do you read into a dog where you come to the conclusion that compulsion is now needed?

One method I've always had good luck with. When I take the dogs in the woods, with a new pup, they all run loose. I never call them by name but use a "here" command to bring them in to me. The new pups always follow. Eventually I run the pup by itself and have never had a refusal. As others have said, I NEVER call the pup if it is distracted.

not sure, I guess I think that as a young puppy most training should be positive, maybe it kills their drives, not sure ... do you disagree?