Re: Dog Attacked Daughter
[Re: Sarah Morris ]
#184889 - 03/09/2008 01:06 PM |
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Ok, playing devils advocate here...
In the amount of time it took for the dog to go for the daughter, push her down "go for the head and neck" he could have done a tremendous amount of damage before he was pulled off. I'm not trying to take away from the seriousness of what occurred. It is deadly serious. But the daughter wasn't bit. If he intended to bite her, she would be bit, somewhere. Arms, head, neck, somewhere.
The same thing happened to me when I was a child, a dog went for me outside a store, it was being walked by children. It pushed me to the ground, went for my head and neck, growling and snarling savegly. My mom and the kids pulled it off me, and not a scratch. If it had wanted me dead, I would be. I don't know what happened to this dog, It wasn't reported, and we never saw it again.
See my point? His behavior is WRONG, Dangerous, and can not be allowed, but did he really intend to bite her, or was there something else going on? He obviously has issues, I don't know enough about dogs to say if he can be rehabbed or not.
Just thoughts...
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Re: Dog Attacked Daughter
[Re: Shody Lytle ]
#184890 - 03/09/2008 01:11 PM |
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Shody,
Yes, we felt the same way at first but our instincts tell us he was going to attack to harm.
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Re: Dog Attacked Daughter
[Re: Sarah Morris ]
#184894 - 03/09/2008 01:16 PM |
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Others might feel different but he would be history if he was in my family. He isn't just nipping or biting. Going for the jugular of a family member he knows is beyond anything remotely acceptable to me.
How could you ever trust him completely again after witnessing something like that?
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Re: Dog Attacked Daughter
[Re: Mike Alarid ]
#184897 - 03/09/2008 01:32 PM |
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I have limited dog training experience.
Then you need professional help immediately, IMO, to do an eval.
And when you are interviewing possibilities, you must discuss the prospect's experience with aggressive dogs.
This was not a sudden thing, from all that you have written about nipping, food aggression, etc., but you have allowed it to progress much too far, and you need help.
And the dog cannot be anywhere near your child.
JMO.
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Re: Dog Attacked Daughter
[Re: lee sternberg ]
#184898 - 03/09/2008 01:35 PM |
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Hey Mike,
I've never had to deal with this kind of issue (frankly, it would scare the hell out of me) but I know from reading this forum that many other people have...and have done so successfully.
It requires a lot of work, it's not a "quick fix", and you will have to make major changes in how you live with this dog. This involves the entire family and every single person in the house has to be onboard and willing and able to follow the rules every single day . One careless lapse could end up tragically.
You'll get a lot of help here if you decide to try and work through it. I do think a good, experienced trainer (not so easy to find) will be needed, as well. There's a limit to what an internet forum can provide...even one as great as LB.
You mentioned aggression has been an issue. Has it always been an issue, in one form or another, from Day One and it's recently gotten worse or is this fairly new?
If this is fairly new behavior you might want to consider a medical work up. It's a remote possibility but I know if my dog's behavior dramatically changed I'd want to rule out a medical cause first. Just a thought...
True
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Re: Dog Attacked Daughter
[Re: Sarah Morris ]
#184900 - 03/09/2008 01:51 PM |
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Either there is something wrong with the dog. Psychologically or medically. Or there was something your daughter did to provoke the dog. Not intentionally, but lots of stupid subtle things can make a dog react in stupid ways, and more often than not, people will say there was no provocation or warning signs, because they do not know what they are supposed to look for so miss the warning signs.
Or possibly combination of all of the above.
A dog that has been fine for years does not suddenly act this way for no reason. There is something, even if you're not seeing it, but it will be one or a combination of the 3 things mentioned above: Psychological, Phyical, or reaction to environment (the way your daughter approached, the situation the dog was in when someone reached to pet him... perhaps in combination with being in pain, or psychologically unsound, etc).
I would look into physical problems first. Take him to the vet and talk to them about physical problems they can look for that could cause irrational aggression. If that comes back negative then find a trainer that has alot of experience with dog psychology and dealing with aggression. Have them eval the dog for you and determine what it is that sets off the dog.
Keep your daughter away from the dog. While I am absolutely 100% sure she has never done anything to the dog as you say, you never know how a dog percieves the things humans do, I wouldn't risk that the dog has lost trust or developed a grudge against her for something he "thinks" she was trying to do. Figure out the problem first.
Also, don't alter the way you behave around the dog. People tend to take this stuff too personally which creates tension and resentment between owner and dog. This does absolutely nothing for you or your bond with the dog. If the dog is behaving normally, then just treat him just like you always did before. Be excited to see him, play with him, walk him etc.
How old is the dog?
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Re: Dog Attacked Daughter
[Re: Mike J Schoonbrood ]
#184905 - 03/09/2008 02:08 PM |
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Im sorry to say this but if it happened without warning. (meaning you couldnt spot the warning signs) then i dont think its a good idea to keep him.
i think myself i would have him tested for illness and if clear put him down.
Not fare to rehome or put your family through the turmoil of retraining. I think your daughter will always be scared of him now and that in itself is dangerous.
Its sounding deffo like a dominance issue, as he also did attack for being restrained, i think he would of bit her just from this.
My 2 cents, please dont be upset if i think pts if best option
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Re: Dog Attacked Daughter
[Re: Sarah Snape ]
#184908 - 03/09/2008 02:17 PM |
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Sarah, no offense to you, but based on your previous posts about your own dog, I hardly think you have the knowledge or experience to advocate whether or not a dog should be put down, or whether or not it is a dominance issue.
Dog ownership is entirely about training, too many people feel that this is optional, or only do a half job at it, then dogs do things that animals with teeth do and the dog gets put down because nobody took the time to fix the problem. A problem that in many cases could have been avoided from Day 1.
There are not all that many dogs in the world that are TRULY "dominant". The problem is, in 99% of cases, not that the dog is dominant, but that the handler/owner is not dominant over the dog, so the dog chooses his own rank. A little bit of training and good handling and the "dominant" dog will turn into a follower. There are very few dogs who do not respond to this. I hate that people are so quick to jump on the "dominance bandwagon".
I stand by my previous post. PTS is a last resort and I do not believe the OP and his dog are anywhere near this point.
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Re: Dog Attacked Daughter
[Re: Mike J Schoonbrood ]
#184916 - 03/09/2008 03:04 PM |
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”Keep your daughter away from the dog.”
Mr. Alarid:
Although seemingly obvious advice, such as but not exclusive to the above, I encourage you to act according to your child’s (family) best interest before the dog’s. Which is to say; take whatever reasonable precautions to protect your family from potential harm (segregating the dog, is one possible temporary solution), then explore all options in context with professional FIRST HAND advice.
Trying to find solutions via the Internet is fine, as a start, but don’t let this effort be your only avenue. The solution to your dilemma, no matter what such might eventually be, should not be determined without hands-on canine expertise.
Best of success to you; I do not envy your position or tough decisions, that MUST (as a matter of course) be made to remedy the problem.
Happy Trails,
Mark
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Re: Dog Attacked Daughter
[Re: Mark Villasenor ]
#184917 - 03/09/2008 03:07 PM |
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... explore all options in context with professional FIRST HAND advice.
Trying to find solutions via the Internet is fine, as a start, but don’t let this effort be your only avenue.
As Mike S. (great post, Mike S.) and others have pointed out, this is your next step: Professional eval.
JMO
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