Jaana Thank you so much for information you provided. Would you please describe this ''dobies are less forgiving compared to shepherds situation. Since I'm hearing a lot and I have no idea. Every dobie owner says this, can you give an example related to this matter? Cause I can't get it, it sound like an unforgving dog or even vindictive. Thanks again

Nononoo... This is not what I meant. It is just that if you repeat an action two or three times, it becomes a pattern for the dog that he can learn from. If you repeat an action one time, I can already be a pattern for a dobermann. Especially if it is in favor of the dog. It just seems that they notice more and learn from every experience instead of just the ones that are repeated several times. It could be called intelligence but if a dog is not corrected two times in a row for a crooked position, you can count on him trying to expoit this later. If lucky, in training, if not, on an exam or competition and at this point this intelligence works in your disadvantage.

This however can be true for any breed of dog, it is just what I have noticed here that dobies tend to do more compared to the GSDs here. If you have completely messed up a command it is a whole lot easier to teach it from the beginning with a new que than to repair the damage.

But what I like in owning a dobermann is that I feel more safe with one. Veeda is a budist when it comes to people and I can take her to the bank, pub or kindergarden without the fear of her biting someone but despite that she still looks like a dobermann and this makes my late night walks carefree. There hasn´t been a drunk on the street that has bothered me when I am walking with her. She hasn´t been trained in personal protection and never will (I don´t think anyone in Estonia trains that) but as a quite small young girl I feel that a dog that looks "just like the one in that movie" is enough. For me a big GSD looks just as intimidating but I guess Rex is more of a positive caracter for the public

Which sub-species of each are you taking about, the working example or the show example. I ask because they are now for all intent and purpose two separate breeds with the same name. I can only assume from your question you are talking about a working example as you want the traits of biddability, character, loyalty, protection and intelligence. Therefore the GSD would give you the best chance for a dog with those genotypic traits. Why? Because the working breeders of the GSD far outnumber the working breeders of the Doberman. In fact today the actual working Doberman today are so few in numbers that they are not a factor by most when considering a working breed. On the other hand the working GSD is the most used service dog in the world today. You do the math. Norman

Thanks Norman.

I am talking about show line GSDs because these are pretty much the only kind we have here and this is the thing I want to stress- all my information is based on what I see here and show line GSDs are all that really can be seen. We should have some working line GSDs imported but I am not sure why they can´t be seen very much. Though there is one that is often claimed to be working line (I personally don´t know so much about GSDs that be able to judge that) that is doing well on competitions. But this is against a bunch of showliners and dobermanns...

I understand Jaana but please tell me how working Doberman's are tested in your country. Norman

Jaana
Your dog is beautiful. I have always loved the dobermans but never owned one.

In my country dobermanns are really not tested. They need to pass national obedience level 2 (the sport is sort of a lighter version of IPO obedience), national tracking 1 (IPO1 A and B parts) or higher, IPO1 or higher or German ZTP. This national obedience is a breeze to pass to any normal dog but the club can´t institute breeding rules without the consent of the members and nearly not all are interested taking it the hard way for the breed.

Some breeders that like to breed lovely floppy-eared companions are able to breed their cuddly buddies after teaching them to heel, lie down and retrieve over a jump.

However there are some breeders that actually care about the breed (lucky for us, they are the majority) and do what they can to work them. One of the breeders organized the first ZTP in Estonia, the ones tested before were done so in other countries. None are pure working line dogs and the aim is for the dream- an universal dobermann. At national level the dobermanns are the best there are (especially when taking in account that there are about 8 times as many GSDs registred per year). International? This year it is the first time that the national team is going out so we can´t say.

I talk about what I know about. And this is what we have here. I have not seen a wide variety of great working dogs of different breeds and breedings in action and I whould like to note that so it can be taken in consideration when reading what I have to say.

Are hardbehind working dobes that bite the daylights out of anything that moves, bred here? Probably not. And this is not the breeders goal. Though few dogs bought from Estonia have done pretty nicely in international competitions. It is just that I believe (still) that a universal dobermann can be bred and if someone wants a high level competition dog, they might never, as a whole, be able to compete with workingline GSDs but if there is someone that wants a dobermann, shouldn´t pick a GSD just because there are no decent dobes around.

Certainly it is easier to find a good GSD capable of winning a big event then is to find a Dobermann capable of the same.
However it is also arguably easier to find a mal capable of winning big events then it is to find a GSD capable of the same.

Does that mean it can't be done? Of course not, in both cases.

No doubt finding a good Working Dobermann is not easy. However IT CAN BE DONE! There are numerous breeders around the world striving to maintain and improve the working ability of the breed.
When you find one be ready to wait as litters are reserved in some cases before they are announced.

I would not tell someone who wants a GSD to get a Dobe instead. Nor would I tell a person who wants a dobe to get a GSD .

Vadim Shekhtman
USADobermann.Net
Arkan Kazimir Von Rubenhof - PSA1, FR Brevet, PSA PDC, HOT, CGC, Therapy Certified through L.O.A.L.
Buffy von Heisser Schuss - RingDobe in Training

there are plenty of good working dobie line left out there you just have to do your research stick to most french and german lines to me there more hardcore and can match any GSD just stayaway form these IPO1 lines that buy there tittles loook for a good track record PED as for why a dobie over a GSD for me its the fur i hate all the shedding thats why i stink to my dobies