Quote: randy allen

If it were me I'd review my training methods and try to determine here I've gone amiss.

Me too. At first blush I am guessing that you might be using the food as a bribe rather than a reward, that you may not be using the marker with good timing, and that you may not be using high-value treats.

I'd brush the dog's teeth before I would allow my vet to dictate how I train.

Treats that contain sugar (in any form) or that start out with wheat and corn in the ingredient list (like the ones in the vet waiting room ) are a bad plan, period.... just as food that's similar to that is a bad plan.

Treats that are figured into the daily food (and are appropriate to do that with -- meaning treats that are food) are a much better idea.

I use real meat snacks/treats and like Carol I use a mix of types and flavors. Couldn't say anything that's been said alreayd any better so I won't touch on anyone else's points again only that you've only had him for 5 months and you don't know his full background and how he was handled. Sometimes with older dogs it can take quite a while, especially if the new owner/handler is also trying to learn at the same time as their new dog.

With the kongs - my dogs have limited interest in plain ole kong toys. They might chew on it for a moment and then get bored with it. I fill my kongs with a mixture I make and then freeze it for a few hours until solid and then give it to the dog. It is now a doggy popsicle and a very interesting object that can occupy them for a while.

The mix I use is Wellness 95% or EVO 95% canned food, salmon oil, vit e, raw eggs with shells, yogurt or kefir, and a little bit of water. Or I use Honest Kitchen mixed with all of the above. Works great, and I will add in minced organ meats or raw sardines or raw muscle meats.

Today he ate part of the remote and a pencil on my daughter's watch. I'm back at watching him, now. LOL. Can't even take a break without the dog in the crate I guess. Sigh.

Anyway, if you train regularly, you'll go thru a lot of chicken breasts pretty quick IMHO. Yes?

Kim

Kim, there is a recipe on here somewhere to make snacks from chicken livers. Maybe Connie or somebody will see this and steer you to it, but I think it was simply put garlic powder on chicken liver and microwave it to the firmness you desire.

These are pretty cheap and you only want to use a snack that is about the size of a pencil eraser.

I make about a million eraser sized treats from left over steak or roast for my dog and put them in a baggie in the fridge. They last for days and the only drawback is you have to cut them up but this only takes about three to five minutes.

Good luck

I use eraser-size bits. One chicken breast makes dozens of eraser-size bits.

Thighs work fine, too, but are oilier in your bait pouch or pocket-with-baggie.

Oops, Nora beat me.

I forgot about leftovers! I don't eat meat, but of course leftovers are perfect if you have them!

I train every day, more than one dog The treats I give are very small - just enough to be a taste to the dog. For large dogs I will use 1/4" pieces, smaller dogs would get even smaller pieces, tidbits. You don't want to fill the dog up you want to give them a reward that keeps them motivated. I don't just use one type of treat in a training session. I cut up peices of cooked chicken livers, muscle meats from various soruces(chicken, turkey, pork, beef, venison, bison, fish etc)

I also use Natural Balance food rolls cut into 1/4" x 3"long strips or even 1/8" x 3" for small dogs. You can hold the strip in your hand and break off tiny pieces with your thumb to give to the dog, this way you are not constantly reaching for treats or clenching your hand trying not to drop a bunch of tiny treat pieces or giving more than one when you don't want to.

I go through a fair amount of them in a day but not a lot really, maybe a pound of mixed treats a week for 3 adult large breed dogs.

Ah I got beat - twice!

Edited by Jennifer Marshal (05/12/2008 07:42 PM)
Edit reason: I'm slow

Also, Kim, I am probably doing this wrong but someone will see this and correct me if necessary - I don't have a bait bag, I put the treats in a baggie and usually have a handful and my dog also at first would want to go after the bag. I started using different hands to give the treats and I put my hands behind my back when she wanted to go after the bag or hand. When she does that I just say verrrry calmly 'No, that's not it.' and then if she persists, I stop the session and put away the treats. This only took a very few times of stopping session and she caught on that the magic treats didn't appear until she did what was asked.

Hi, that's basically what I do, also (treats and put away when he insists on grabbing at the bag.) Again, the treats work for a while so it is worthwhile. For treats I'm simply using the dog food he's eating (evo innova. dog eats pretty good imho.) . Also, I'm trying the tethering idea that you use from now on. I've got him tied to me to free my hands right now.

Today has been bad, LOL. He's eaten part of a remote, a pencil, and finished off his retractable leash. Sigh. All on my daughter's watch while I'm here at the computer for a minute typing. (argh!)

I had him upstairs while I was putting away laundry early today and he lunged for some socks. I said no, then gave a really hard jerk on the prong and he whimpered but after that didn't go after a sock on my watch. That's the first time I've jerked him that hard to get a small cry out of him. Sigh. Maybe I've been too nice? Didn't hurt him--he ate the remote/pencil after that while my daughter was watching him. So now he's tied to me and sitting on a chair behind me while I type this. He'll be my shadow from now on and I'm nixing the daughter . The retractable is history, anyway. I liked it because it gave him some freedom, but he'd just go find someting bad to do, anyway. Now he's on a 5 ft metal leash!

I guess some would say do the treat thing all day and forget about the prong collar. I've considered that, but he'd eat me out of house and home and weight 100 lbs because he's constantly going after something. It would prob stop him from getting into stuff, but honestly he'd just hound me to death for food. He's a mooch--I think they fed him off the table, as I said.

His "Stay" or "Place" lasts about 30 seconds at most. It has only been with the prong collar this past month that he's starting to show some sign of giving up his obsession! I only use food when we're learning/reinforcing commands, etc, like "Place" or "Stay".

The chicken liver idea sounds good. I bet he'd love them and they are pretty cheap. Also the chicken thighs. Nobody at my house likes them anyway .

I just get discouraged some days when he seems to regress.

The good news is, he's great when it comes to going potty. Thank God for small blessings. I had a dog in the past who was a royal pain when it came to going outside. She had to find just the right blade of grass--squat, no that isn't it...walk around somewhere else, squat; nope! That isn't it either. It'd go on for 45 mins sometimes.

I seem to find the really neurotic ones. Just lucky, I guess.

I did have one who was a real peach. But sometimes I think the good ones are rare. At least for me. I had him for 11 years and he was our baby.

Thanks for the suggestions,
Kim

Kim, he does not sound neurotic, he just sounds like a dog that never learned or had any boundaries.

You don't need to redirec his chewing with food. Use toys, something high value that you only use to play with him or to redirect off of something. Don't leave any toy around all the time for him to have whenever he pleases, that decreases the value of the item.

How do you know he "knows" the commands? Especially stay/place, he likely only knows to stay there for 30 seconds.

I very strongly suggest rethinking and researching marker training.

You are also lucky he has any attention span at all for training since you only use his regular kibble. Evo is an excellent kibble IMO but dogs do thrive on variety and for training you need something high value to the dog to maintain its attention and interest.