 Re: Socialization question
[Re: James Gunderson ]
#195001 - 05/15/2008 10:51 AM |
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In one of the training DVDS Ed Frawley mentions that he never lets anyone touch his dog. I have read elsewhere that allowing people and children to pet your dog is part of the socialization process. Can a dog be socialized if no one touches the dog but the owner? I am scheduled to begin puppy training at the local Pets Mart and am wondering if I should let anyone touch my dog?
Thanks for any advise.
IMO, this is an important question to think about. The "right" things to do now have a LOT to do with what you expect your grown up dog to be later.
If, for example, you WANT people of your choosing to be able to pet your dog / interact with your dog, then you need to train for that. (i.e., do you want your mother in law to be able to pet your dog someday? Your dog will never know who your relatives are, just because they "are.")
Make sure to follow Ed's advice to the letter, and all the way through if you choose the "nobody touches my dog" route. I say this because we have one dog in training with our group who was re-homed because inititally, the "no one touches my dog" socialization was done incorrectly, and now the dog has issues with people. Not over the top issues that have to do with nerves - just some challenges that could have been avoided with a PROPER approach to no one touches my dog.
Hopefully that makes some sort of sense.
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Re: Socialization question
[Re: Beth Fuqua ]
#195017 - 05/15/2008 12:16 PM |
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With all due respect I disagree with having no one touch your pup. Given that 99% of the people on this group will want a balanced dog begs this question, why? Because of my 30 years of training sport dogs have been to Germany many times to visit and to buy GSD's and during this time I have been to many schutzhund clubs and visited stayed with many schutzhund breeders and teaching helpers including but limited to Dieter Haupt of the Lindenhalle kennel Gerhard Unland and have never seen a pup isolated by a breeder or trainer, and there was some good ones, for any reason, in fact just the opposite is true. If the dog in your post had people issues IMO it was not because the owner let people touch the pup. Remember if it doesn't make sense to you it won't to your dog.
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Re: Socialization question
[Re: Norman Epstein ]
#195019 - 05/15/2008 12:24 PM |
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With all due respect I disagree with having no one touch your pup. Given that 99% of the people on this group will want a balanced dog begs this question, why?
When I allow people to approach and pet my dog (which I do, it is part of training with distractions for me) It was only AFTER I had already built up that bond. The dog was focused on me and was looking to me for what to "do". You don't have this with a new pup that you have not bonded with yet. After some basic OB work was done, and the pup was comfortable with following my lead, then yes. Select people that I knew were allowed to approach and pet. I did not allow people that I did not know that I met on the street or otherwise pet my dog. The OP was talking about a beginner puppy class, and I just don't agree with doing that. Not when there are other ways to expose the dog to new things in a way that makes sense.
When a flower doesn't bloom, you fix the environment in which it grows, not the flower. |
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Re: Socialization question
[Re: Cameron Feathers ]
#195021 - 05/15/2008 12:37 PM |
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When I allow people to approach and pet my dog (which I do, it is part of training with distractions for me) It was only AFTER I had already built up that bond. The dog was focused on me and was looking to me for what to "do".
Me too. Also, "who will pet my dog" is "who I say can."
It's not whoever wants to in a big group of strangers. 
I really don't want any strangers approaching me or my family/pack and getting in any faces or touching any of us. 
People who are welcomed to my house or whose house we visit will eventually be friendly with my dog.... as familiarity develops.
Others, I pretty much want my dog to ignore.
The socialization thing (for me) is taking my dog everywhere with me and exposing him to all kinds of stuff.
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Re: Socialization question
[Re: Cameron Feathers ]
#195022 - 05/15/2008 12:45 PM |
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Cameron wrote in part:
"It was only AFTER I had already built up that bond. The dog was focused on me and was looking to me for what to "do". You don't have this with a new pup that you have not bonded with yet."
It may be I am not understanding your above. Are you saying that allowing strangers to pet your pup for a few minutes will in some way hinder that pups bonding with you. Norman
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Re: Socialization question
[Re: Norman Epstein ]
#195025 - 05/15/2008 12:58 PM |
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I don't allow anyone to pet my pup because more than anything else, I want him to be focused totally on me and not care what the other guy is doing with his dog. I have a hard time convincing the people I know that a dog does not have to be made over by every Joe Schmoe to be "socialized".
Bravo Vom Buchonia |
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Re: Socialization question
[Re: Matthew Thurston ]
#195026 - 05/15/2008 01:05 PM |
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Matthew we are talking about a pup. I have never seen a pup that can focus on anything. Again this is not training but socializing. And we are not talking about a group hug just the ability to let the dog see that he has nothing to fear from people. It is up to you to step in when you think he might. Just for the record all animals socialize there young. Norman
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Re: Socialization question
[Re: Beth Fuqua ]
#195027 - 05/15/2008 01:05 PM |
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Reg: 01-12-2008
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Loc: High Desert, California
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In one of the training DVDS Ed Frawley mentions that he never lets anyone touch his dog. I have read elsewhere that allowing people and children to pet your dog is part of the socialization process. Can a dog be socialized if no one touches the dog but the owner? I am scheduled to begin puppy training at the local Pets Mart and am wondering if I should let anyone touch my dog?
Thanks for any advise.
IMO, this is an important question to think about. The "right" things to do now have a LOT to do with what you expect your grown up dog to be later.
If, for example, you WANT people of your choosing to be able to pet your dog / interact with your dog, then you need to train for that. (i.e., do you want your mother in law to be able to pet your dog someday? Your dog will never know who your relatives are, just because they "are.")
Make sure to follow Ed's advice to the letter, and all the way through if you choose the "nobody touches my dog" route. I say this because we have one dog in training with our group who was re-homed because inititally, the "no one touches my dog" socialization was done incorrectly, and now the dog has issues with people. Not over the top issues that have to do with nerves - just some challenges that could have been avoided with a PROPER approach to no one touches my dog.
Hopefully that makes some sort of sense.
What's doing it the wrong way? I'm trying to follow Ed's advice and not let anyone pet my puppy but I'm curious to know how I can go wrong with this method.
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Re: Socialization question
[Re: Maisha Butler ]
#195034 - 05/15/2008 01:35 PM |
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Loc: Mandeville Louisiana
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Maisha wrote in part:
I'm curious to know how I can go wrong with this method.
IMO you can go wrong by not letting anyone touch your puppy.
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Re: Socialization question
[Re: Maisha Butler ]
#195038 - 05/15/2008 01:51 PM |
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What's doing it the wrong way? I'm trying to follow Ed's advice and not let anyone pet my puppy but I'm curious to know how I can go wrong with this method.
I would think that "doing it the wrong way" might be to instill a fear of humans in your pup or dog. A stranger approaches to touch or gush over the pup and the handler hustles the pup behind him and makes clear that this is a scary event.
I'm in charge. I want my dog to know that humans I approve of are safe for him and for his pack and our house, and that others are ignored.
Also, I have had very calm and confident dogs (and have one now) who are just not comfortable with a lot of touching. With that dog, I am not going to force him to sit through caressing and petting by strangers.
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