EDITED TO SAY: Socialization as a word seems to mean different things to different people. For me. socialization is basically exposure...not necessarily rolly-polly interaction with strange pups.

Having done the puppy class/group class way, this will be my definition of it too.

'In my classes while the puppies had free play time, we humans discussed everything from housebreaking and crate training to dominance issues such as mounting and mouthing.' End of quote
Heck that sounds alot like a dog park to me.

Why not just get the owners together once a week for tea (aaaah or for what ever), without their dogs, and discuss the same issues you mentioned? Maybe even have a game of bridge later.

If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy

 Quote: tammy dempsey

In my classes while the puppies had free play time, we humans discussed everything from housebreaking and crate training to dominance issues such as mounting and mouthing.

In my experience, you can EITHER have a "discussion" with other dog owners OR you can give your full attention to supervising your puppy, making sure he is not bullying other pups or being bullied by them, and that no one is ganging up on him or stealing his toy. You can NOT do both.

It's like taking your toddler to a playground with other people then standing around and talking, only noticing when one of them starts crying. You can't forsee/prevent problems without paying attention.

I for one have attended a puppy class, but I told the instructor ahead of time that I did not want my puppy to participate in the free play time. I will say that during the free play time, the owners were at least being somewhat attentive to their dogs. They were good about waiting until we left before letting the pups off leash. The poor 10-week old Rott was always picked on by the 15-week GSD who was at least 3 times bigger.

My puppy did learn to get treats by paying attention to me and ignoring the other dogs, but the other puppy owners thought I was mean. Plus he was 5 months of age when we did this.

To each their own is my thought on the subject. I don't need a puppy class either but love the distractions :-) I take my dogs as puppies to my friend's puppy classes. I pretty much use the time for just getting my dog in an area where there are other young dogs and work on attention in a happy positive manner. Could I do it without the puppy class? Sure, but I find it easier to do it at a class. ACDs can have dog aggression issues so I like starting them young at being around other dogs/puppies.

HOwever, my friend's class does not do the puppy free for all time deal that some classes do.

I agree with Ingrid: To each there own on this subject for sure . So many factors involved.
I have a friend who teaches a puppy class too, and I like to take that class with young puppies. There is a very closely monitored 'play time' for about ten minutes before the start of class, participation optional. There is no expectation that the puppies themselves will learn anything while they are in class other than how to be around each other while the owner learns to train them. As the class progresses and the puppies learn (the owners are given a lesson to do at home each week), the instructor is there to answer questions and address concerns with some insight into the temperament of the puppies involved. It's a very supportive environment, especially to new dog people. The important thing for me here is that I've known these folks for a long time, and there is a bond of trust already. Trust is a biggie.

I know the notion of 'play group' offends the sensibilities of most here and understandably so, but in my experience the pups that I've allowed to participate in this monitored play have grown up to be more balanced adults. Keep in mind that this is only ten minutes, once a week for six weeks, but is during a critical learning/socialization period. Having done this as puppies, they seem to be less 'socially awkward' as adults. I'm not a big fan of allowing my dog to mix it up with other dogs, but I still enjoy having a dog that I know is stable and has retained the social skills he needs to be friendly and calm around other dogs of my choosing. I haven't found that this has hurt the attentiveness at all.

For a novice handler, nothing beats having a hands on instructor show you what to do. Sometimes its difficult to "get it" when you just watch videos and read articles.

That said, I do very little with puppies at all other than socializing, but to each his own.

If there's a time to let dogs play and frolic with each other in a class, it's during young puppyhood - supervised as you would with children. Not spending that time talking to other people and not giving total attention to your pup. I think it's a good foundation for the first 3 or 4 months of a pup's life. But it's not a time to turn your back on what the pups are doing with only a fleeting glance once in a while. It's a good time to study your pup and learn more about him.

However, training new commands to a pup that young in a class - I disagree with that. Too many distractions and you would end up struggling to keep the pup's attention which can be stressful to the pup. Not fair to the pup. Play a little with others of its own species and age, yes....training in that environment, no.

And as far as requiring vaccinations in order to attend, most who post here generally don't want to vaccinate their pups and dogs, because of vaccinosis, future health issues and possible behavior changes.

 Quote:

However, training new commands to a pup that young in a class - I disagree with that. Too many distractions and you would end up struggling to keep the pup's attention which can be stressful to the pup. Not fair to the pup. Play a little with others of its own species and age, yes....training in that environment, no.

See, I disagree with this to an extent. I have never had a a 3-6 month old puppy that got stressed when I ask for them to give me a nano-second watch when other dogs are around. Quick bursts of attention with big rewards just imprint on my guys that I am where the fun is at.

Do I think it is appropriate to expect a puppy to be heeling with full attention with other puppies around? Nope. But I won't knock "playing the game" or brief "watch me" sessions either. But as I said in my first message - to each their own :-)

What you described is not what I was talking about, though. If I understand what you said correctly, you're speaking of moments of attention given to you by the pup, not necessarily training commands like sit, down, or come. I was talking about actual training that can go on in puppy classes.

And of course it's to each their own, always is . Input is not dictating and if I came across like that, it wasn't my intention. It's all input and opinion on this forum.

Also would like to change my previous statement of "most who post here generally don't want to vaccinate" to say "some who post here....".

I took Hans to a puppy class at Petco. It was a bunch of people with puppies sitting in a circle. The trainer mostly lectured then demonstrated with one of the puppies and gave us homework. We spent a lot of time restraining Hans, who wanted to go see the other puppies.

First lesson we brought him with a prong collar and the instructor said don't bring him back with one. Second lesson flat collar only and he was just impossible. So for the third lesson and after we brought him on the prong and had less problems, and the instructor didn't object.

For what went on and what was taught, it would have been better for the owners to come without their puppies and listen to the trainer lecture, and her demonstrate with one dog, then give us the home work.

So all in all, I think the puppy class was not as useful as the Leerburg DVDs or this board.

Later, when Hans was older, I took him to a professional trainer. That was all hands on. We worked in her yard, I had the leash, and she gave instructions. If I wasn't "getting" it, she'd take the leash away, demonstrate, then give the leash back. It was like, do this, drill, drill, drill, drill, go home and drill some more, come back in a week and let's see what you and the dog can do, you aren't doing it right, here's how, now drill, drill, drill, go home and drill some more ... and so on. I learned a lot more working one on one with a trainer than I did in the puppy class.