The house is nice and cool. Rob's crate sits between the couch and the wall, with about an inch on both sides. The "thick blanket" is just fleece material, thick enough so he cant see out of. It only covers the front, top and one side. The back and other side is uncovered. He's in direct path of the two sky lights as then move around the room, so the blanket also serves as shade when the lights are on him. I'm pretty sure he's not too warm.

Do you EVER reward whining/barking (with attention or opening the crate)?

Is his crate where he can see family stuff but still be out of the direct path?

Have you ever marked and rewarded for quiet crate?

Is he too young for a minute here and there throughout the day of fun upbeat motivational marker stuff?

Do you have a couple of crate-only treat-stuffed toys?

I have probably crate trained 50 or more puppies over the years, and there have been 3 of them that were very much like Michele's pup.

I believe dogs like this are usually very high drive and usually very smart little bugggers and they may have a bit of OCD if allowed. The reason I know that is because all 3 of those difficult dogs still live with Ed and me in our house (2 Mals and one GSD) . LOL

My female Raine was the worst case scenario and at 4 years old will still have moments where she reverts back to her old behavior if I don't give her enough exercise. Around our place the dogs have to do their crate time every day due to the number of people who come and go around here. Raine is extremely territorial in the house and if I don't crate her someone may get hurt.

Her son Rush, now just 9 months old was a screamin' demon in the crate for many weeks. Probably worse than Michele's puppy! I tried marking quiet moments, I never let him out when he was barking/whining and I am quite sure he got enough exercise (more exercise than i would ever condone for a puppy actually LOL )

I also tried isolation and the "earthquake".... crate was covered and when he would bark I would sneak over and lift the crate several inches off the floor and drop it straight down. I think Rush liked that

I used a bark collar, it took him all of about 15 minutes to figure it out and I now have a calm and quiet dog in the crate. After about the first 2 months I started testing him without it and he's doing well 85% of the time. I know he may bark between 7 and 8 AM because he's hungry but I never reward that so it's diminished as well.

Michele may need to use the bark collar, to give the dog the clear message about calm and quiet in the crate. It's not worth having constant stress in the house and having a dog that's anxious in the crate to not try all your options. I believe Rush was about 13 weeks when I first used the bark collar.

I hope this helps.

P.S. I would always try everything else possible first with a puppy but there are some hard cases out there that just don't respond to the traditional tricks of the trade. I believe in black and white for dogs, and the bark collar provides that clarity and usually does it very quickly.

One other thought about rewarding whining/barking in the crate...
Is there any chance that someone besides yourself may inadvertently be rewarding his behavior? I don't recall that you mentioned if you live alone or not...

Connie,
The only time he was let out of the crate (while crying) was during the first week, where he litterally wouldn't stop crying for hours, and I had to take him out to potty. But all I did was clip the leash on, take him to potty, and then in put him back in. Now, he has to be absolutly quiet. Often, he'll start crying when I lift the blanket to let him out. He has to be sitting and quiet for 5 secs before I unlatch the crate door.

The crate is in between the wall and in the couch, in the family room which is the back part of the house. Family only comes in and out to watch TV or access the back yard. If the blanket is pulled up from the front of the crate, he can see people in part of the kitchen and family room. But the blanket can't be up or he will whine a whole lot more.

No, I haven't marked and rewarded quiet behavior.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "marker stuff", sorry. Before meals, I'll run through some of the commands he knows (sit, down, come). I trying to keep it fun and up beat. He loves food, so its not hard.

No treat stuffed toys. I'm trying to steer away from that.

Edited by (06/21/2008 10:11 PM)
Edit reason: apparently I cant speak English

Cindy,

Your post helped me immensely.

Having working border collies all my life, I'm not really sure how to gage "high drive". My one 8 y/o BC now, Brad, recently has literally callapsed back and head down in a stream and almost drowned herself b/c she was so exhausted from chasing a ball she couldn't get up. I was at college and my brother called and told me of the "funny thing Brad did". Needless to say, I was pissed and reminded the whole family that she will kill herself chasing the ball. To me, Brad is only medium drive. Luckly I haven't noticed any brain damage from the incident.

Today, Rob was out running around playing fetch and hanging out for 1 hour while my dad and I built the kennel. That hour of running around, but not really sprinting, didn't phase him. I put him in the crate to give Brad a chance to be out. I could hear his barking outside 50 yards away for 2-3 mins. He couldn't see or hear us.

The one exercise tool I had when I had mutiple BC's was each other, since there's no such thing as a doggy BC working sheep. Rob is separated from Brad 95% of the time. So I have to be the whole source of exercise.

Funny you mentioned the "earthquake". Rob used to like to make his own earthquake occur. He would get so upset, he'd tip his crate in the house or car. Now his crates are firmly wedged : ).

He's also gotten his jaw stuck in the wire three times. Thankfully, I went to investigate why his crying pitch went from "get me the hell out of here" to "OH GOD! Please help me".

Lynne,

Yes, I live with my parents and brothers while I'm home from college. They have been so much harder to train then Rob . None of them get or attempt to get dog training. "The Dog Whisperer" has been a blessing and a curse. Everyone is learning about dog behavior. Unfortunately, my Dad thinks he's Ceasar and tries to give Rob the "SHH" with hand bite when Rob acts like a puppy (and not pack issues).

Your question got me wondering, so I went and investigated. They "know" not to give Rob any attention while he cries. I told everyone I needed an honest answer what they've done about Rob's crying:

Little bro said he said "shut up" once while walking past the crate. Didn't say Rob's name. Crate was covered so if little bro looked at the crate, Rob wouldn't know.

Dad said one time he yelled from another room "would you be quiet". Again, he claims not to have said Rob's name.

Older bro, don't know yet. He's the most clueless when it comes to dogs. I'm sure he may have said something.

Mom, absolutely nothing said.

If everyone is being honest, though, could they still be the culprits?

Michele, here is another poster's experience w/ the bark collar and crate training. (just in case you missed it!)

http://www.leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=199745#Post199745

Thanks everyone for your replies.

I went ahead and ordered a bark collar.

Michele, post back with your results! Good luck...