A martingale at the end of a human controlled lead is much different than a martingale hanging from a wall, which is not safe.

I am not sure how familiar you are with sighthounds, but the head is narrower than the neck, hence the use of a WIDE martingale-type collar rather than a normal buckle collar, or even a thin martingale.

There are many different training techniques, and many ways to handle the situation. I do not need to use that one, unless I find that nothing else works. If that was the case, great. I'll try it.

I'm still not understanding how a dog pulling against your hand holding the leash, is different than the dog pulling against a hook holding the leash.

Are you saying that you give the lead to the dog if it pulls against your hand?

Just to throw my two cents into this...
I have and DO use a prong on sighthounds. They work just as well as with other breeds, and they enable you to pull LESS on the neck of the dog - IMHO they are even gentler than a martingale.
The martingales are a way to prevent the sighthound from slipping the collar, as many have smaller heads than their necks are. This makes keeping them in their collar on the track very difficult, thus the martingale.
For training, I would use a prong if it was needed.
I strongly recommend NOT hooking the dog to a wall - it is a good way to INCREASE frustration, thus causing a more aggressive response in the dog. Very useful when trying to create frustration in a dog for training purposes, but bad if you are trying to calm down the dog.

As a trainer I always offer more than one solution to a problem. I leave it up to the owner to determine which method better suits their skills as a trainer, their dogs personality and their temperment. I have personally never used the tether method, but have suggested it to clients who have used it with success. I like the muzzle correction or pulling up on the scruff of the neck while saying no.

As to letting the dog bite because he will "Grow out of it" not all dogs stop biting. I would nip it in the bud as soon as possible, especially if there are children and elderly people in the household. Innocent playbiting can escalate into aggressive biting and behaviors. I have seen it happen many times.

A quick snap and release of the training collar is different than tugging and choking your dog, like most people do with the traditional choke collar. It is called a choke because most average people do not know how to make a effective correction and half of them put it on backward so it does constantly choke the dog. Choose the method you are most comfortable with. I clicker trained for years before crossing over to leash and collar. IMO leash and collar is a far more releiable method of training. Clicker there are no corrections or consequences for not performing a command. Every dog has to go thru a correction phase during obedience.
** See mod post below about marker training **

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I like the muzzle correction or pulling up on the scruff of the neck while saying no.

What age are you suggesting this for??

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As to letting the dog bite because he will "Grow out of it" not all dogs stop biting. I would nip it in the bud as soon as possible

Who said to let the dog bite?

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Innocent playbiting can escalate into aggressive biting and behaviors.

Pending competency of the handler/trainer.

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It is called a choke because most average people do not know how to make a effective correction

So they named a collar based on its incorrect usage? Interesting.

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I clicker trained for years before crossing over to leash and collar. IMO leash and collar is a far more releiable method of training.

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Clicker there are no corrections or consequences for not performing a command.

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Every dog has to go thru a correction phase during obedience.

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Certified Professional Trainer

Back to the drawing board perhaps???

i think all the replies above have their validity.

from my experiences, which includes training ex-racing greyhounds in household environments, dominance has its place when it comes to reasoning behind unwanted behaviours.

Saying that, however, a lot of bad behaviour comes from routine - the dog 'gets used to playing with your husbands hands'.

Having toys available and using them 'as toys' e.g. playing ball or playing with your dog - is to introduce a new routine. that is, 90% of the time, those lovely hands have toys in them.

Hands are not toys.

I would now basically take a step back and use 'hands' as little as possible in any activity. That means no extreme cuddles, no hand corrections etc. Hands give food and hands move slow. Corrections can come from voice and leash or any other method that you see suitable.

Finally (breathe) i think it's important the dog moves away from the hand, and the hand does not move away from the dog.

Does the dog bite when your husband's hands have food in them?

 Quote: lisa harrison

... I have personally never used the tether method, but have suggested it to clients .... It is called a choke because most average people do not know how to make a effective correction and half of them put it on backward ... I clicker trained for years before crossing over to leash and collar. IMO leash and collar is a far more releiable method of training. Clicker there are no corrections or consequences for not performing a command. Every dog has to go thru a correction phase during obedience.

One thing among the above is that marker training (including with clickers) to teach behaviors is not mutually exclusive with corrections, proofing, etc.

Markers are a tool for the teaching phase. That is, using markers for the teaching phase does not mean that there can be no corrections phase if needed.

(Also, of course, withholding the reward is indeed a "consequence." )

I am going to ask that you read a little more here (web site and forum) before offering marker training advice. Thanks.

I recommend too that you read up on marker training. http://leerburg.com/markers.htm

Connie,

I knew I would be hearing from you eventually, Gee what a surprise! Where's Will?

I have several of Leerburgs training videos and have been successfully training for 7 years.

This forum is for sharing ideas, offering advise and giving opinons. If you do not agree with a method that is your business and perogative. However, just because you do not agree with a training method does not make it wrong.

1.)Muzzle corrections work best on puppies 4-8 months old
2.) The correct name for the collar is training collar, not choke
3.) In clicker training, what is the correction?
4.) Practice what you preach Connie-Ed Frawley states that are 4 steps to training-1.)Learning Phase2.) Distraction Phase3.)Correction Phase 4.) Maintenance Phase.


So what part of my advice do you have the problem with?

Lisa,

The forum is not a free community board for posting anything the poster likes. That is, wrong information is corrected.

If you will read the articles at Leerburg.com, including the marker article I linked you to, you'll see that your statements about marker training (which may relate to 100% no-corrections -- or all-positive -- training) are not correct about marker training as discussed here.

 Quote: lisa harrison

I have several of Leerburgs training videos and have been successfully training for 7 years.

I suggest the Basic Obedience video for an overview of using markers to teach behaviors in obedience training.