My holisitc vet did recommend at least the parvo vaccine with my last dog. I opted out of it though too. However, something she told me has stuck with me and that is that in Bolivia, where she is from, parvo is (was?) rampant. Dogs died every single day in her clinic from parvo, sometimes up to 7 dogs a day. No one vaccinates there.

BUt, I do wonder what they feed their dogs there too. (IE: if mama was ill, not eating well, of course her weakened immunity would get passed on...) and then the pups eating who knows what...

A good diet and a good mama (and genetics) go a long way with immunity, IMHO. (but of course I am no biologist/immunologist).

My allopathic vet did confirm "it is not IF a pup has a reaction to vaccinations, it is a matter of WHEN" just like Ed states.

Phoenix Did become due for her VAc about 1 week ago.
I took her in got a 3 years rabies and me and my new vet talked I asked her looking at phoenixs history for shots.
And she knows I feed raw knows next to no vacs if possible none.

So thats why we chose the 3 years rabies.
She told me dont do tilters now wait tell she is do for her next rabies we will do them then.

She knows I know what the vacs say she showed them to me good for 3 to 7 years on the botttles it says that.

So for my desision phoenix got a 3 years rabies which my state and city except. And no other vacs.
Phoenix as a puppy got a bortitella vacs
Bruiser never has
and roscoe has only had 1 set of shots and wont get another.

Hope thats helps.
And like kody phoenix goes to hospitals and things with me.
I vet drew up paper work saying that she has had shots and dont need anymore for a while in plain terms

Kori, I plan on doing what you are contemplating, which is only vaccinating for rabies, since it's required by law.

I will do titers, because I may have a need to kennel her in the next year, and I'm not sure that I could find a kennel that would take her without the titers.

For me, the risk of vaccinosis is too great.

This is my own, non-medical observation following 4 years in a vet hospital:

I never once saw or heard of an older dog (1 year and up) becoming ill with parvo or distemper. I guess it happens...but I never saw it.

The cases of parvo we did see were in BYB pit puppies, probably whelped in less-than-optimal conditions. All survived parvo save one, whose owner waited way too long to bring the pup in.

We saw one case of distemper. A Pom puppy imported from Mexico and probably whelped in less-than-optimal conditions. Pup survived.

Some of our clients were religious about vaccinating but many were not. Some had gone years without updating parvo (including one of the vet's dogs who hung out at the hospital, exposed to all sorts of nasty stuff). My own dog had only 2 DHPPC shots as a pup. He hung out at our hospital every week for over a year and didn't catch anything.

I ran titres on my dog when it came time to vaccinate. Yes, they are expensive and maybe they are worthless? I do know the test gave me some idea of my dog's immunity and gave me something to go on...better than just guessing, IMHO. I didn't give the DHPPC and probably won't ever again.

And I often wonder what, if any, impact vaccinating (2 DHPPCs and 2 Rabies) had on my dog's current allergy situation. Maybe it had nothing to do with it, maybe it lowered his defenses enough to make him sensitive to environmental stuff? I do know that one day after his 3 year rabies shot he started frantically itching and it's never really subsided since then.

Frankly, and you can call me crazy, a bout of parvo seems the lesser of 2 evils compared to 6 months of constant biting, scratching, hair loss, skin sores, bacterial skin infections, ear infections, anitbiotics, antihistimines, prednisone, allergy injections, bi-weekly baths, and expensive vet visits. None of this is going to end, it can't be cured, and he won't get over it. Seeing all this, I wish I had never vaccinated him in the first place.

My conclusion, based on a lot of reading and seeing with my own eyes puppies surviving the "dreaded diseases", is I'd rather deal with the disease itself than with years of health problems associated with vaccinosis.

Just my two (very long) cents...

Ditto what Sarah said. Like Sarah, I'd rather deal with the disease, IF a disease ever arises, than with possible lifelong consequences of vaccinations that my dog would have to deal with. Another possible consequence of vaccinations is death.

I have 9 dogs.

7 of my dogs have never had any vaccinations and never will. Excellent health.

One of my dogs had 3 parvo/distemper vaccinations as a puppy less than 12 weeks of age. Excellent health.

One of my dogs had 4 parvo/distemper vaccinations as a puppy less than 16 weeks and a rabies vaccination at 6 months. Within a month of the rabies vaccination she began having immune related health issues that we still deal with 2.5 years later. We are seeing a chinese herbalist in a few weeks to help with this.

I agree with the above that I would rather deal with the disease than years of vaccinosis reactions. I believe in making sure my dogs are healthy through feeding an appropriate diet(raw), no chemicals(vaccinations, flea & heartworm treatments, chemical cleaners...), exercise and fresh air. A healthy animal can fight pathogens and naturally develop immunity to disease.

Another resource on natural immunity http://www.goldcoastragdolls.com/PatMcKaysBook.htm

Shannon

I have 3 dogs, and two of them haven't had a vaccine in years. One of them had his DHLPP vaccine about two years ago (I adopted him, and was given the vaccine by the shelter). I work at an animal shelter, and have had direct contact with parvo infected dogs without knowing it. They reach a point where they began to poop and vomit dark blood, and that's when I advise our animal care techs of a possible parvo infected dog. It's confirmed by testing the poop, and obvious symptoms. Anyway, I'm out there working around stray dogs throughout the day, and my dogs haven't caught anything to this day. However, I have noticed that puppies tend to be more vulnerable to parvo. Then again, we feed them the crappy dog food that you see at pet stores. When we process a new dog, we give it a DHLPP vaccine before we place it in a kennel. I've seen a couple of our puppies, who had already received a DHLPP vaccine, catch parvo anyway. So, in my limited experience, a dog's diet plays a tremendous role in the dog's overall health. We all know that good health makes the immune system that much stronger. Just watch out for dog poop that you may across during walks. That's where parvo is really hiding.

Edited by Julio Martinez (07/20/2008 12:29 AM)
Edit reason: More info

Ditto on Parvo being more common in pups, most adults that are healthy from onset (IF they get sick at all) that I have seen have gotten through it with minimum disruptions. All pups that I have seen with Parvo earlier than 6 months of age have been just fine when taken to the vet in time. The pups that were 6 months or younger and not taken to the vet in time, probably about 70% made it through despite late vet attention. 1 entire litter of dachshunds who contracted Parvo at the VETS while getting shots made it through at 5 weeks of age. (friend of mine who religiously vaccinated until that incident)
Titers are great for giving you a read out of the test to physically look at and KNOW that your dog has converted the vaccine into antibodies, ready to fight the issue should exposure happens. If you are prone to obsess or worry/rethink a decision, then it might help you feel more comfortable/sleep at night knowing that everything SHOULD be ok should exposure happen. If you are not all that concerned after reading all these posts, then skip the titer.
Everything has risks, and going against the mainstream for something as important as your dogs' health, well that deserves to be thought long and hard over. God knows I was anxiously awaiting my dog to burst into flames spontaneously after I fed the first raw meal, after the first raw chicken bone, first skipped vaccine...
The best you can do is make an INFORMED decision after weighing the risks/benefits, and deciding what YOU can live with.

Oscar received the normal battery of puppy shots (I didn't have much of a clue back then) - last one was a rabies I think, and he was about 6 months old, but I haven't vaccinated since, and he's 3.5 now. The only one that my old vet's office would send me reminders about was the lepto shot, and of all the shots, that's DEFINITELY one worth skipping (highest percentage of side effects, arguable protection). Oscar drinks out of nasty puddles, munches on icky things in the woods and is generally out in the elements every day, and no worse for the wear. I think his raw diet and general good exercise and health keep his immune system strong, and I'm with Sarah - I'd much rather treat a bout of disease related sickness in a robust, healthy dog than the lifelong aftereffects of vaccinosis.

But you MUST make this decision on your own, after you've researched all the angles thoroughly. If anything were to happen down the road, you'll feel much better about whatever it is if you're confident in your decision.

~Natalya

 Quote: cameron feathers

God knows I was anxiously awaiting my dog to burst into flames spontaneously after I fed the first raw meal, after the first raw chicken bone, first skipped vaccine...

OMG - it's like you've been inside my head! LOL - you just described me when feeding raw. I was like that when Kodee ate his first raw egg, for cryin' out loud!

I called my vet and discussed titers, vacc, at length with him yesterday. I read a lot of info on titers before I called him, and he basically stated the same thing that some others have stated, which is that the titers aren't all that reliable, as they can't measure "memory" in cells, and that one dog might have a certain level of antibodies, which is enough to protect that dog, but another dog might be protected with a lower number. So the titers aren't that beneficial. He goes with a 3 year vacc schedule normally, on the core vaccines, along w/rabies. BUT, he normally doesn't go to 3 years until the dog has had yearly shots til 3 or 4 years of age.

I think i'm going to compromise. At the moment (and I've been known to change my mind on occassion ), he's already had his puppy shots. I think I'll get his first set of adult shots, then I'll probably not get anymore, other than rabies. I think he's going to recommend against this, but that's my plan, and he's usually pretty good about respecting my wishes, even if he doesn't agree 100%. (He doesn't like the raw diet, but he didn't try to talk me out of it, either. Just gave what he believes are the pros/cons, and then respected my decision.) Yearly shots til 3 or 4 years makes me nervous. He isn't "due" for shots for about 3 months, so I'll keep researching in the meantime. At the very most, I would not do shots more than every 3 years after the 1st adult set.

Thank you all for all your help! This is a hard decision for me to make, and you've eased my mind a lot.