....at risk of sounding horribly sexist - and i am very athletic, run, have played sports like rugby competitively, i know how to hit and how to take a hit....

would most women be strong enough to decoy? not all, but as a rule, from a size perspective.

at FR yesterday, the trainer put me in the suit so i could see what it's like and what the dogs are like when they're biting, so that i'd have that perspective. we did 2 exercise - a stationary bite, and defense of handler. i was fine, but decoying requires a lot more strength than it ever occurred to me - i was wearing a medium weight suit, which was heavy!! - i know competition suits are lighter, but to be a decoy, you need strength for the suit as well as to be slammed by dogs. i would imagine for some of the attacks where the handler sends the dog from downfield - those dogs are moving fast, and especially some of the bigger, heavier dogs - that would require a lot of strength to take those bites and go with them. i know that i had respect for decoys before, but i have a LOT more respect for what they do now.

obviously i'm a complete newbie in this regard, so maybe i'm totally wrong, and i'm not saying that women couldn't decoy, but i would wonder if the majority of women would have the requisite strength to decoy, and to decoy well.

 Quote: jennifer mullen

would most women be strong enough to decoy? not all, but as a rule, from a size perspective.

At 5'4" and 135lbs (yikes) I would LOVE to decoy. I usually do face plants with the large adult dogs, but I love to work with puppies, although working my own puppy is taboo since she now thinks she can initiate the game (so much for readying for the helper hee hee).....youch that shit hurts with a tank top and shorts on.

I think there is strength involved, most definitely, but there is also the fine art of balance and ballet as well. Sorry guys, could not think of a better word.

Feet, arms, body and legs must all move fluidly to get the best out of the dog and make the injury to both helper and dog minimal. If you can't dance, then decoying may be difficult to learn.

I think the biggest thing I notice with new or inexperienced helpers (and I am not experienced, but when you have watched or worked around some of the best, it is not hard to see the mistakes) is that they try to "be a tree" and do not or forget to move with the dog. YIKES, to see a dogs neck wrenched like that just makes me cringe.

i guess i was thinking that to be able to move fluidly and properly with a dog while decoying requires a fair amount of strength too.

i actually think that to maintain balance and do the work while moving with the dog and the bite, especially in certain scenarios, would require more strength than simply going against the dog or being a 'tree' as you say

but i don't have the experience to know if that's right, just that i came away thinking that decoying was way more physically demanding than i'd realized, and i'd already assumed that it was physically demanding. (ETA: in addition to the technical part of it)

i just re-read this and aren't sure i am being clear (shocking, i know) - i guess i'm wondering if to be an effective decoy, strength plays a role in your ability to be balanced and ballet-ish.

There are "tricks" to decoying. Being able to hold the dog in the pocket, is more a matter of leverage, than strength.

The crucial thing is not to let your wrist drop in the first place, then you don't have to wrestle the dog back up there.

 Quote: Mike J Schoonbrood

 Quote:

What about women as protection decoy/helpers?

Something tells me you are only gonna get very one sided answers about this on a forum that is predominantly female.

Well, here's one. And I'm posting it, too, since Mike already knows about it.

I don't have the strength to decoy. Tried it on the PD field and have the falling injuries to prove it (mostly healed now, months later).

OTOH, there are men who don't have the strength or stamina or agility (and you need all three) too.

And on the OTHER other hand, I'm old. Still, I know I didn't have it at 40 either.

And I probably never had that fluidity that I have seen with some decoys -- or that perfect sense of where both quick-moving feet are, just like (yes, I agree) in complicated dancing. That, of course, has nothing to do with my gender.

I have never seen even a clip of good decoying in a suit by a woman. I'd like to, if anyone has a link. Besides strength, I imagine that the different (lower, more to the back) center of gravity might be a factor.

(Training and handling are a whole 'nother story.)

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

And on the OTHER other hand, I'm old. Still, I know I didn't have it at 40 either.

Well, I do have youth on my side, being the youngest decoy on our training field, by about 10 years.

And I've learned how to use leverage and momentum to compensate for a poorly healed torn rotator cuff.

 Quote: Jennifer N. Hack

This is something I intend to ask without offending anyone... Do you think dogs work distinctively different for men vs. women? I have heard from many people that dogs tend to work better for men, in general, and that women have an additional challenge to gain a dogs respect and work a dog when they are a female handler or owner.

I don't really think it's about the persons gender.

 Quote:

What about women as protection decoy/helpers? Will a beginning civil training dog still take them as a true threat?

Dogs work differently on different people. Could 'most' women put a lot of pressure on a big, strong dog in protection?...I don't know. What one dogs finds threatening on a drive, may not bother other dogs. At a certification seminar, there was a guy that was very fast and fluid in the catch and drive, but none of the dogs were really bothered by him. Often, being more deliberate and showing subtle, yet intentional, body postures is more unsettling to a dog.

 Quote: Jennifer N. Hack

This is something I intend to ask without offending anyone... Do you think dogs work distinctively different for men vs. women? I have heard from many people that dogs tend to work better for men, in general, and that women have an additional challenge to gain a dogs respect and work a dog when they are a female handler or owner.

I don't really think it's about the persons gender.

 Quote:

What about women as protection decoy/helpers? Will a beginning civil training dog still take them as a true threat?

Dogs work differently on different people. Could 'most' women put a lot of pressure on a big, strong dog in protection?...I don't know. What one dogs finds threatening on a drive, may not bother other dogs. At a certification seminar, there was a guy that was very fast and fluid in the catch and drive, but none of the dogs were really bothered by him. Often, being more deliberate and showing subtle, yet intentional, body postures is more unsettling to a dog.

 Quote: john haudenshield

At a certification seminar, there was a guy that was very fast and fluid in the catch and drive, but none of the dogs were really bothered by him.

"Show me your war face! That's not a war face, this is a war face!"

 Quote: alyssa myracle

"Show me your war face! That's not a war face, this is a war face!"

"You don't scare me, work on it!"