Quote: Michele McAtee

SHe allowed him then to walk along side her with no leash. Then she incorporated a short lead and by setting this into play, he now walks perfectly.

How did she get him to walk alongside her w/ no leash, and what did she do if he strayed from position to get him back into position?

 Quote: lynne barrows

 Quote: michele mcatee

SHe allowed him then to walk along side her with no leash. Then she incorporated a short lead and by setting this into play, he now walks perfectly.

How did she get him to walk alongside her w/ no leash, and what did she do if he strayed from position to get him back into position?

She walked 2 other dogs on leash and he followed behind. If he got out of line, she did the "Schhhtt" noise.

You nailed it Lynne with Cesar...he does do the pops and "commands" respect. However, if your energy isn't *perfectly* aligned, a drivey dog will never succomb to Cesar's method.

Dictionary definition of Compulsion:
1. the act of compelling; constraint; coercion.
2. the state or condition of being compelled.
3. Psychology. a strong, usually irresistible impulse to perform an act, esp. one that is irrational or contrary to one's will.

so to me, it's forcing the dog to do something it's not in the habit of doing.

Like lets say Tucker hated having his feet touched.
I grab his paw's anyway, even though he'll fight me the whole time, im trying to "force" him to let me see them even though it goes agains his impulse to pull them away.

so to me compulsion training is physically forcing the dog to do something he's not in the habit of doing.
A forced (compulsion heel) to me is keeping the dog by my side with force (constraint), be it holding tightly onto the leash with little freedom so he has no where to go but by my side or with corrections to force him to comply (forcing him to do something that is irrational to him or goes against his impulse to forge ahead of me).

now, thats what it is in my mind.....so im probably not explaining it correctly...lol.




Edited by Wendy Lefebvre (08/26/2008 10:12 AM)
Edit reason: blonde moment

 Quote: michele mcatee

She walked 2 other dogs on leash and he followed behind. If he got out of line, she did the "Schhhtt" noise.

You nailed it Lynne with Cesar...he does do the pops and "commands" respect. However, if your energy isn't *perfectly* aligned, a drivey dog will never succomb to Cesar's method.

Hmmm, that's interesting...
Not a drivey dog though, right?

And yes, I agree with you about that assessment of Cesar's method.

So, Cesars "pops" on the lead to get a dog in line when walking.

Is this not compulsion because it is psychology/energy versus actual training?

Or, is what Cesar does considered compulsion?

What Cesar does would be considered a correction, if that.
It's really more designed to get the dogs attention- there is not actual *force* involved.

It's the leash equivelant of a tap on the shoulder.

what about when he uses his heel in the dogs side or flank to get it's attention back on him or re-direct?

is that compulsion??

im getting confused

I think the tap with his foot is like a shoulder tap too...like "hey, remember me, the leader?"

If I am going to get anywhere using Cesars method with my young pup, I guess I gotta get my energy straight! He's a pull monster!!!

But, thankfully, with motivational techinques, he is doing great with heeling off leash in the house. Will eventually work this outside on our regular walks I guess!

What does Cesar do with lil pups?

I can't help but wonder exactly what Cesar would do with lil Huck here. I cannot imagine lil Huck Finn walking behind Cesar with a "sstttt" and a lil foot tap.

 Quote: wendy lefebvre

what about when he uses his heel in the dogs side or flank to get it's attention back on him or re-direct?

is that compulsion??

im getting confused

He touches the dog.

I agree with Michele: "I think the tap with his foot is like a shoulder tap too...like "hey, remember me, the leader?" "

And yes, he sometimes uses compulsion.

But he's not teaching heel, sit, stay, down ..... he is almost always working with dogs who are badly screwed up from from current or past experiences/handlers.

JMO.

 Quote: michele mcatee

What does Cesar do with lil pups?

I can't help but wonder exactly what Cesar would do with lil Huck here. I cannot imagine lil Huck Finn walking behind Cesar with a "sstttt" and a lil foot tap.

We were on the Dog Whisperer a couple years ago and I asked a couple questions about his training techniques because we were going to be getting a puppy soon. He doesn't discuss specific training methods or show you how to train things like sit, down, etc. He refers you to a trainer because his main focus is that you can't even train a dog without first learning how to be the pack leader. But he did do a segment about a year ago or so, that had a dalmation puppy that a fire dept. rescued and were trying to train. He did the same things with that puppy that he did with adult dogs - I was amazed! He got it to stop stealing food of their plates, stop running out of the station into the busy street, ect. just by the tap and the chhhhh noise he does. He didn't teach it down or sit or anything - it's just his presence. He told us the mom dog doesn't need to use words, so why should we have to.

We were on the show because our golden was terrified of the air compressor and everytime my husband would go out to the garage she would flip out. By the end of 30 minutes he had her laying out next to the air compressor with no force, no compulsion - he just walked her out there, used a little canned dog food at first to distract her (while she was following her nose to smell that food, she couldn't think of the air compressor at the same time, he said), and bam! she was friends with the air compressor. Of course, she wasn't still friends with it once Cesar left, but as we worked with her as he showed us, it did improve.

I became a big believer in how important our attitude, presence and being calm/assertive is, in dog training! I saw that the minute our dog saw that I wasn't confident in handling her, she would be scared, or stubborn, or refuse to do what I wanted her to. So I'm not sure if that falls into the category of compulsion. Would it be true that a mother dog uses compulsion to teach her pups?