Well, Nick, I tried to send you a private message, but it seems like your private messaging is not activated.

OK, you guys got me worried! right away i started thinking in a defensive manner but i stopped & looked at everything objectivly & this is what i come up with regarding the dog not being able to work.
1) i checked/met both mother & father & was thouroghly imppresed! beautifull dogs, picure of health. the redest (red/blk color)i have seen, dont know if this is good but i loved it.
2)intense drive in both, would warp to get ball & bring it back to get another throw & if throw did not come fast enough then intens barking with snapping teeth together at owner. though male was distracted by bitch in heat in house bsmnt, if throw took too long then he would go snifing at window of house, priorities!
3) owner said both are schh3 & something else. also said that (i think) 4 gen back all are schh titled.
note: owners do a bad job updating web site (they have admited it)& i assume that is why the schH titles are not listed on the site.
4)i checked papers & #3 it true, according papers.All have been schh titled,generations back.
Note: papers are in german can someone let me know what these mean- under mon & dad?
Father=schH3 (sg-bsp) fh1 lebenszeit "a" normal
Mother=schH3 lebenszeit "a" normal
GUYS: im not afraid of the truth, do you think i have been hoodwinked here? im still worried! do breders give out fake papers after the fact i have bought the pup?
P.S.
RENEE, i will try & get my pm up.
PATRICK, i dont like what you say BUT i greatly appreciate it. What do you think regarding the info i provided above?
Thanks again,
NB

Hi Nick

the titles you listed are Schutzhund titles, also the father was at the Siegerprüfung with a SG (very good) rating. If your pup is with pink SV papers the owner cant fake those,the pup and the litter is registered at the SV ,so the titles and the breedsurveys.Both have liftime breedsurvey and the hiprating is a normal

It s ok that you like the reddish colour but that does nt mean something drivewise.
Colour does nt bite <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Retrieving a ball is fine but that even a labbie does well. Real workingqualitys are to see up until you put real training on a dog.With both parents SchH3 that s already more a proof of trainability as none title at all.

I meant with funtracks to give the puppy a task without screwing it up with expecting a real correct work. Taking a young puppy out on the field for playing or do a scentpad with food ,praise him ,do a few more steps with food,praise him and he feels happy that he did something good and found some food too.I was trying to advice something to do for the little dog instead of having alltime devil drive left by not getting tired a bit or have nothing else to do.

Whats the pedigree on your pup ,his age and what were your main worries by thinking on a e collar for it already.I dont see where the other topics are at. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Bye Jutta

Nick,

I know alot of people who have been sold a highline puppy to do the work, the breeders citing, hey the parents are titled, you can do schutzhund!


That being said, a few of those accomplished it with tons of work,lots of compulsion and dedication...a few were just not pretty!!! I ahve seen some "working show lines" wiht one drive set heavy duty - like tracking or ball drive, but totally devoid of another needed trait - and alot can't take the pressure and the drive fizzles away...so knowing this could be a problem up front, you can spend alot of positive fun time building that desorable behavior with lots of rewards...

Look at it this way...you want to go from point A to point B - the family 4 door will get you there just fine...the corvette will get you there with alot more fun driving!!! Family 4 door sedan = highlines; corvette = working lines!

So - when you decide you need a dog to do sport with, you will have some training experience under your belt, and know what the differences are! Just have lots of fun for now!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I am one of those suckers that Lee is talking about. Wanted a dog to train for fun, ended up with a dog to medicate. Auster might be able to be trained, but it certainly wouldn't be fun or pretty. Tell that to a show breeder and they will say that you are the problem because they can send their dogs to Germany to a trainer and the dogs come back a few months later with a "SchH" title (hmm, think I am getting into another topic). Can't blame the breeder since I had already been convinced that I wanted a showline dog by the time I contacted him, but there are a few people out there that will create unrealistic expectations in order to try to sell you a pup. I'm sure there are some showline dogs that can do it, but I didn't get lucky and win the lottery.

Take it easy, enjoy the pup, and hope you are luckier than I was. At least I have learned a lot about herbs, nutraceuticals, and alternative medicine in the process.

Well, I raised my 1st GSD thinking that she was a working line dog, then found out all of her lines, both W German and Czech, were show lines. She however, was never told that she was show line and works her A$$ off everyday now as a certified patrol K9!! I would say she is a rare throwback to something way back in her pedigree, and she is a VERY serious dog!!

Now then my next GSD was a male 100%WG showline. He is a lab dressed up in GSD fur!! HE has NO drive at all! HE doesn't even pick up his head to acknowledge you if you enter my home at 3am, or go to the door if someone comes in, never mind bark. I think I can count on 1 hand how many times he has even barked!! He wasn't like that as a pup, but he matured into a couch potatoe that is EXCELLENT with my kids and cats.

Needless to say, my newest pup is 100% working lines and even though I love my showline GSD, I will never get another one. The drive and spark of the working line dog is a joy to work with. I enjoy my new pup imensely, as he has the drive, brains and energy of a true GSD!

Well, I raised my 1st GSD thinking that she was a working line dog, then found out all of her lines, both W German and Czech, were show lines. She however, was never told that she was show line and works her A$$ off everyday now as a certified patrol K9!! I would say she is a rare throwback to something way back in her pedigree, and she is a VERY serious dog!!

Now then my next GSD was a male 100%WG showline. He is a lab dressed up in GSD fur!! HE has NO drive at all! HE doesn't even pick up his head to acknowledge you if you enter my home at 3am, or go to the door if someone comes in, never mind bark. I think I can count on 1 hand how many times he has even barked!! He wasn't like that as a pup, but he matured into a couch potatoe that is EXCELLENT with my kids and cats.

Needless to say, my newest pup is 100% working lines and even though I love my showline GSD, I will never get another one. The drive and spark of the working line dog is a joy to work with. I enjoy my new pup imensely, as he has the drive, brains and energy of a true GSD!

Jenn Kavanaugh wrote: I used and loved the e-collar BUT my trainer, and all the reading I referenced BEFORE even buying the thing, seemed to stress it works best when the dog already knows the commands (and I mean REALLY knows them) but is 'choosing' not to pay attention.

LC: This is but one use of the Ecollar, reinforcing known behaviors. The tool is also quite useful for teaching new behaviors.

Jenn Kavanaugh wrote: If you just want to come down on your dog with the 'Wrath of God' for a mis-behaviour, and just get it a nervous wreck because it doesn't understand why suddenly, from no where, the world crashed down. Then you can get it anytime and realize you've ruined a good dog!

LC: This is a possibility anytime high level stim is used without an introduction. The tool works best if the dog understands that it's his behavior that makes the stim start and stop. Judging by your use of the phrase, "come down on your dog with the 'Wrath of God' " is sounds as if you've only used the device as a punishment tool. That's probably not appropriate for this puppy; but using it as a training tool would be perfectly acceptable.

Jenn Kavanaugh wrote: So the dog would LEARN, and not just be PUNISHED.

LC: Anyone who uses the tool just in the punishment mode isn't exercising its full potential.