Kristel, that's an interesting historical anecdote. I wonder if that hand out still exists somewhere. I emailed Anne Marie Silverton (referenced in Janice's page) to see if she still had the hand outs or any of the source material. We'll see if anything comes of that.

BTW, I agree that prongs can be useful. The existence of the study or not doesn't affect their effectiveness. However, it's a bit of historical lore that I'd be curious to see resolved.

I actually looked to see if I could find my copy, but it was so long ago that it's long gone. I'm curious about whether prong-collar sales were handled with similar hoopla in other areas, or if they were just a big deal here.

The hand-out was a marginally-legible black and white copy; a multi-page affair with the prerequisite staple in the upper left-hand corner. It wasn't very sophisticated, but there was a lot of info. I got the impression that whoever put it together was trying to assuage any guilt that a potential user might feel about using such a scary looking device on their dog. It also had instructions for the correct fitting and use.

At the time all I felt was relief from being dragged all over town, and gratitude that such a helpful tool existed. I thought the info was pretty interesting too.

I also wonder, if the study doesn't exist - are chokes really as dangerous as the study suggests?

I wonder that too. But if you look at the basic mechanics of both tools (prong v choke), the amount of force that can reasonably be applied (or the average that would NEED to be applied) and the dispersion pattern of that force; then how that plays out in terms of force per square inch....If the study isn't real, it certainly could be.

If looked at from a strictly effectiveness/comfort perspective:

With a choke, a dog can still pull like a freight train to the point of gasping and choking

With a prong this generally doesn't happen.

I agree, and it's one reason why I never previous to the other board's argument, thought about whether the study was real - b/c it seems totally logical and possible.

....though, then it does point to the 'use a tool properly' point of view as well....maybe choke chains are easier to misuse - ????

My honest $.02
I don't think, when CORRECTLY USED that choke chains are any more dangerous than any other tool.

HOWEVER, even in my own Schutzhund club, I see only one or two trainers who know how to correctly use a choke.

It takes experience, skill, finesse and good reflexes to employ a choke correctly.
A prong is not nearly as demanding.

I also believe a flat collar is as effective as a choke.

I too have had problems finding out if this study really exists . I've heard it referenced on occassions when folks see a choke on my PSD . I know many on this sight are not pro choke chain .

My experiance through seeing many K9's trained with just choke chains ( we trained mostly using choke chains when I started in our K9 unit 12 years ago and did so for a few years after ) I haven't seen the injuries quoted in the study . We now use the prong more often in training .

To me the choke chain is a good tool when used properly just like other tools like the prong , e-collar , dominant dog collar etc..

For me I find the prong collar more effective for most K9's . It worked the best for my first K9 partner when I switched from the choke chain but it doesn't work with some dogs . My current partner will try to eat me for lunch if I put a prong on him .

In my experiance I found the prong to be the most effective training collar closely followed by the e-collar with the choke being a distant third but to me the choke is still a great tool used correctly and I've not seen it to be as damaging to a dogs neck as the " study " stated .

I've seen the prong used incorrectly as much as the choke . Most people I see have it on totally wrong many times with the prongs across the dogs trachea . I often refer them to this site and it instructions for wearing it properly .

Jim, makes total sense that appropriate tools are going to depend both on the dog and the handler.

I've used choke chains as the collar that the tags are on, but not with a leash. I'm quite certain I don't have the skill to use one as a collar.

My non-scientific method to assess how the "prongs" of a prong collar apply pressure was to put it on my own neck and try it with varying degrees of "pop."

I was interested how it would feel on my own Adam's apple.

It wasn't an issue, and I could apply a pretty good correction to myself with no injury, lasting marks or pain.

It would be interesting to hear from an expert to give a seat of the pants explanation of the differences in structure between a human and dog neck.

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That being said, with ecollar now I use prong much, much less.

I did the same as Andrew. I put the prong on my arm and popped it a lot harder than any correction I would give a dog. Aside from a few marks due mainly to not having fur I didn't find any adverse effects so I used it on my dog. I like the control it gives. I can control Molly with two fingers on the leash for normal use and one hand if she lunges.

When I did the same thing with a choke the skin got pulled painfully into the ring. It hurt like crazy. So if I had to wear one or the other I'd choose the prong.