Quote: alyssa myracle

It would probably be easier to continue to longline the dog outside the apartment. Distraction is tough for a young dog.

I'd also work on a solid down-stay, so when the dog DOES come, it can't take the treat and trot away again so quickly.

She is always on a 10-ft line. Unfortunately, the area is limited and closed to fence (which she can go through). So, I can't quite give her too much leeway. Also, if the line is too long she would just wander, sniff, and munch around and not do her business in the same (limited) grass patch she usually does it. I now will be more than happy if she just comes when recalled outside.

Btw, when she is recalled when we are inside, she comes and sits pretty less than one foot away from me. She would also turn around and come when I throw out toys and she lunges out to get it. I have taught her to wait for "fetch" command to go get the thrown toy. So, when she lunges out without fetch command, I say "oops" and say "come". These days, she turns around and comes almost of the time. Then, after doing that twice, she gets it and not lunge out until I say "fetch" after throwing the toy out. So, I think she is quite (semi-)distraction-free well-trained. I just can't quite to get her attention when she is outside the apartment if I do not have SUPER treats (which are mostly messy).

Try Zukes Salmon treats. You can load your pocket with them and they arent greasy. Besides your voice, use a little body language too. Kneel down clapping your hands, move backwards, walk a little calling and clapping. Be patient with her and don't look so much for anything formal. Just get her moving in your direction for now.

She might just not know that she's supposed to come back to you when you're outside. Just because she does it inside doesn't mean she will automatically associate the same behaviour with a different place.

Try starting all over again, the same things you did inside when teaching her, but outside. Assume she doesn't know anything in this new place.

 Quote: pat khan

 Quote: alyssa myracle

It would probably be easier to continue to longline the dog outside the apartment. Distraction is tough for a young dog.

I'd also work on a solid down-stay, so when the dog DOES come, it can't take the treat and trot away again so quickly.

She is always on a 10-ft line. Unfortunately, the area is limited and closed to fence (which she can go through). So, I can't quite give her too much leeway. Also, if the line is too long she would just wander, sniff, and munch around and not do her business in the same (limited) grass patch she usually does it. I now will be more than happy if she just comes when recalled outside.

Btw, when she is recalled when we are inside, she comes and sits pretty less than one foot away from me. She would also turn around and come when I throw out toys and she lunges out to get it. I have taught her to wait for "fetch" command to go get the thrown toy. So, when she lunges out without fetch command, I say "oops" and say "come". These days, she turns around and comes almost of the time. Then, after doing that twice, she gets it and not lunge out until I say "fetch" after throwing the toy out. So, I think she is quite (semi-)distraction-free well-trained. I just can't quite to get her attention when she is outside the apartment if I do not have SUPER treats (which are mostly messy).

You say "oops" and say "come".
In this context your using the "come" as a correction. That will create conflict with the command.

Pat, is this the cocker spaniel?

Some types of dogs that are bred to be more independent (such as Huskies or hounds for example) are more difficult to lure away from their distracting noses. Training these types of dogs takes more patience, consistency and time than for a dog from say, the herding group.

At six months old, I think she may be old enough to learn that the come command is NOT optional. If you are doing everything you can to make it fun and she's blowing you off, I think you should get more serious. (Maybe she isn't ready for this yet, you will have to decide for yourself). When my dog was 5 months he started wearing his prong collar. I only used it to train him not to pull on his leash while walking, and to enforce his recall. (The way Ed shows in the video). Give the command, give the dog 2 seconds to begin to comply, and if she doesn't give her a bit of a pop. Of course praise and treat when she gets to you.

As to your relationship, you are correct that you mustn't damage your bond by giving any unfair corrections. However, you DO need to enforce commands she does know (especially the recall) and insist that she respect you as leader. She is definitely old enough.

You can also try the restrained recall (by your description however, and with an independent dog, the results may not be spectacular). Ed has a series of five free streaming videos showing how to train the recall this way - here is the first one, http://leerburg.com/playem.htm?name=flv/restrained-recalls1.flv

 Quote: angela burrell

Pat, is this the cocker spaniel?

Some types of dogs that are bred to be more independent (such as Huskies or hounds for example) are more difficult to lure away from their distracting noses. Training these types of dogs takes more patience, consistency and time than for a dog from say, the herding group.

At six months old, I think she may be old enough to learn that the come command is NOT optional. If you are doing everything you can to make it fun and she's blowing you off, I think you should get more serious. (Maybe she isn't ready for this yet, you will have to decide for yourself). When my dog was 5 months he started wearing his prong collar. I only used it to train him not to pull on his leash while walking, and to enforce his recall. (The way Ed shows in the video). Give the command, give the dog 2 seconds to begin to comply, and if she doesn't give her a bit of a pop. Of course praise and treat when she gets to you.

As to your relationship, you are correct that you mustn't damage your bond by giving any unfair corrections. However, you DO need to enforce commands she does know (especially the recall) and insist that she respect you as leader. She is definitely old enough.

You can also try the restrained recall (by your description however, and with an independent dog, the results may not be spectacular). Ed has a series of five free streaming videos showing how to train the recall this way - here is the first one, http://leerburg.com/playem.htm?name=flv/restrained-recalls1.flv

YES!!! She is and has one hell of distracting nose. As far as corrections, I can't quite find a line between "not spoiling my relationship with her" and "correcting her to get the point across that "known" commands especially recall are not optional". I'm critical because 3-4 weeks ago my ignorance of the fact that the line was crumbled almost resulted in a dead pup as she was chasing a flying candy wrap down the street and I couldn't get that crumbled line in time. Luckily, the coming car stopped). And, needless to say, she didn't come when called.
I know that that incident was totally my fault. But, that also got me to think how important a recall command and when I see that she chooses not to come because she is just busy sniffing or digging up/chewing rocks, I feel a bit stressed out when thinking about what if the same incident happens again.

Thanks for the link. I thought I looked all over Leeburg.com for any good stuff. Obviously, I missed this one and will sure look into it.

Pat, I totally understand about not knowing where the line is between not enough correction and too much. I have the same problem myself.

I guess when we are first starting out it is trial and error. You need to first accept that you WILL make mistakes, ESPECIALLY if this is your first dog. Luckily for us clumsy humans, most dogs are very forgiving.

I suppose that your rule of thumb should be to correct only to the point of compliance. If you go back to the Basic Obedience video, Ed shows training the recall with his GSD pup by throwing some treats in the grass - i.e. the dog is distracted. He calls the dog then immediately pops it with the collar.

The dog's reaction will tell you everything about whether you did it right or not. If you did, it will react as Ed's dog does - jumps up and eagerly complies (ok, with hunting dogs it will be less eager). Too much and your dog will tuck its tail. You don't want a tucked tail and avoidance. A yip of surprise is OK the first one or two times, but the dog should immediately recover and realize what she is supposed to be doing. If you corrected too hard and the dog goes into avoidance, just go get the dog with a happy voice (don't reel her in) and take her inside - session over. Once inside play with her or feed her so she knows everything is OK. (Cockers are pretty tough though and I don't think you will have this problem).

If you didn't correct hard enough... then your dog will continue to ignore you as she has been.

You basically want the equivalent of "HEY! I called you so you better get your butt over here!" which is between a polite "oh please come, if you want to" and "YOU BAD BAD DOG!"

One thing I have done in the past is warn my dog I am going to pop him by sayng "no" before the pop. This has trained my dog that the actual command is "come - no" or "sit - no" i.e. he doesn't have to listen until I say no.

I hope other more experienced people will chime in also, as my dogs are far from perfect in the recall department.

One thing you may be interested in. In Ed's puppy video you will notice he states that he uses flexi-leads for puppies. That is probably the best advice I had ever heard, and I used one with my puppy. I found it was SOOOOOO much better than a long line because 1. it had a comfortable handle that did not hurt my hand and 2. it has BRAKES. I cannot tell you how many times brakes came in handy. With a long line, if your dog takes off running and hits the end you can hurt your arm (ask me about the scars on my hand). With a flexi that doesn't happen. Also it will never tangle. The downside to a flexi lead is that it teaches the dog to pull against the leash. I used a flexi lead in any situation requiring a long line (mine was 25 feet).

Here is the link to Ed's streaming video page (Warning! This page is like a vortex that will suck up your free time! http://leerburg.com/videolist.php ).

Edited by Angela Burrell (05/29/2009 12:08 AM)
Edit reason: fixed link

I am not one of the experienced handlers, but with that prefaced...

I may have over looked it in your post, but, make sure that coming to you is not an option IN the house. Sometimes we get a little lax about the rules in the house and don't tend to enforce as much because they usually come. Make sure you practice the 2 second rule inside as well as outside. And if it is the SUPER treats the dog is after, may sure they are always SUPER treats until recall is down.

It helps to have a formal and informal command.
Even if the "informal" recall is the dogs name in a certain tone meaning hey, I'd like to pet you, vs the very formal "COME" or "HERE" that you use when she must come now.