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Re: Is hand signals important in Obedeince work, pets?
[Re: Don B. Ackerson ]
#21278 - 07/31/2002 01:39 PM |
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Richard is right on the money about teaching the verbal command FIRST, then add the hand signal later. Otherwise, the gesture will overshadow the verbal and it won't be effective on its own. And stop taking a step towards her as you say sit, that is another physical gesture which she will depend on if you don't eliminate it. Stand close enough to her that you don't need to step in to assist her in rising to the sit.
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Re: Is hand signals important in Obedeince work, pets?
[Re: Don B. Ackerson ]
#21279 - 07/31/2002 01:51 PM |
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Ah, good (this is a big Duh!). I'll start over on that one. When I feed them, I issue a sequence of commands, usually a combination of back, down, and sit, varied so that they don't automatically offer a sequence. I've had the most trouble when the sit is at the end of the sequence, so that she's 6 feet away from me when I say it. I'll cut out the "back" for now, and just work on the sit from the down at a close proximity.
It seems like the step toward her is the cue that she relies upon most for this one command. I'll make sure to cut it out! That was how I taught the sit from a down, though, was to take a step so close to her paws (while saying "sit", and making the upward gesture with my hand) that she would draw them back toward her, ending up in a sitting position.
Thanks!
Lisa & Lucy, CGC, Wilderness Airscent
Western Oregon Search Dogs |
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Re: Is hand signals important in Obedeince work, pets?
[Re: Don B. Ackerson ]
#21280 - 07/31/2002 02:02 PM |
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I think a lot of people have taught the sit from down,including myself, by stepping in and touching the dogs nails with their foot. Avoidence/compulsion, whatever. That's what Im trying to get away from with the guidance from this board. This old dog sure wants to get it right for my next dog.
old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks |
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Re: Is hand signals important in Obedeince work, pets?
[Re: Don B. Ackerson ]
#21281 - 07/31/2002 02:18 PM |
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Sit from a down? Gee... I've taught it to two dogs, one of them a very hard dog, by simply leaving a leash on the dog, saying "Sit!" while tugging upward VERY GENTLY while the dog is in a down. Is this the exercise you mean, or am I missing something here? It never occurred to me to teach this any other way--it's so easy and the dog learns it effortlessly.
Pete
p.s. less "opinionated" dogs can learn this if you just slap your knee while saying "Sit!".
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Re: Is hand signals important in Obedeince work, pets?
[Re: Don B. Ackerson ]
#21282 - 07/31/2002 02:25 PM |
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My problem with my bitch is that she will roll over onto her back if she gets too stressed (actually, she'll freeze first, then if I correct her, or even just tug gently, she'll roll over). It doesn't take much compulsion to trigger this behavior. I didn't want to do the leash-pull-up thing on her, out of concern that she would go into submit mode and not learn anything, so I did the step close to the paws thing instead. Worked marvellously, except that now I have the problem of HAVING to step forward for her to do it! Funny thing is, I don't have to do this with my Lab. He pops right up like a jack in the box on the verbal command alone, from a distance even.
But, I think this can be easily corrected by doing what ScH3FH2 suggested.
Lisa & Lucy, CGC, Wilderness Airscent
Western Oregon Search Dogs |
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Re: Is hand signals important in Obedeince work, pets?
[Re: Don B. Ackerson ]
#21283 - 07/31/2002 02:48 PM |
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Maybe try just slapping your knee a couple of times while saying "Sit!" in a happy voice? Would she be stressed by your slapping your knee to get her attention?
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Re: Is hand signals important in Obedeince work, pets?
[Re: Don B. Ackerson ]
#21284 - 07/31/2002 02:52 PM |
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My dog learned hand signals for sit, stand and stay with food at around 12 weeks of age (in puppy class). No verbal command was issued until the pup knew the hand signals. Then the verbal command was spoken immediately after the signal was issued. After a couple of weeks of practicing both together, the hand signal was removed and the verbal command given only. After the initial learning period, the two commands were not issued together unless the pup wasn't getting it and had to go back to the basics. We were then instructed to either use one or the other when practicing an exercise, and to practice the verbal and hand commands independantly of each other. I like the hand signals. Now that he's older, sometimes I just use 1 finger (I've even tried it with the middle one  ) or a wrist twitch to get him to sit. I had a laughing fit when I "flipped the bird" to my dog and gave a little twitch and he plunked himself into a sit. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Is hand signals important in Obedeince work, pets?
[Re: Don B. Ackerson ]
#21285 - 07/31/2002 02:54 PM |
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Pete,
I think I was editing at the same time you were posting.
No, slapping my knee wouldn't stress her, but it would entice her to jump up on me! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> She's a very friendly sort, who loves to get close, if you know what I mean! I have had to work really hard on the jumping up thing, and my family and guests have NOT been much help, I'm afraid, so even despite my hard work, she still can't resist an invitation. At 32 pounds, and a people pleaser (she's really cute; check her out on my webpage, she's the little black and white dog), people can't seem to resist not only allowing her, but encouraging her, to jump up, despite my yelling at them not to! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Maybe I should break out the squirt bottle and SQUIRT EM!!!! The people, that is... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I'll give it a try, Pete, but I really think it would confuse her. I'll let you know how it goes.
Lisa & Lucy, CGC, Wilderness Airscent
Western Oregon Search Dogs |
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Re: Is hand signals important in Obedeince work, pets?
[Re: Don B. Ackerson ]
#21286 - 07/31/2002 04:06 PM |
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All have a hand signal for my personal protection dog:
Come
Down
Bite
Search
Quiet
I have always had problems with the hand signal for quiet because it is a cue for action for the dog, it doesn't really work the way I wanted because he gets overly excited. I messed it up from the begining. I have since tried using the command in other situations that would not = BITE WORK, but never works. Train and learn. . . . :rolleyes:
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