Thank you....I've already downloaded the pdf file ...thank you for so much information.

After reading Ed Frawley's article and looking at the examples of good x-rays...it appears to me that the x-rays that have been provided to me are of poor positioning. Does anyone else see that or am I looking at it wrong?

Thanks,

Carrie

I don't want to comment on your xrays, but I would like to say one thing. No matter what, you are open to getting a second opinion from your vet or a 3rd party vet. I would highly recommend this and I know a lot of breeders who do this in order to ensure that the xrays or diagnosis are legitamite. I know that as an owner of a dog who might be sick or has an issue, I almost always try to get a second opinion when the case is life changing. I would personally get new xrays, but that is just me.

Is the owner of the puppy close to you? Or maybe have some friends near him? If not, find the local radiologist and give them a call and set an appointment up to get that dog in their. This isn't just to make sure that the issue is present, but it will help you in your future breedings and for your own personal knowledge. Good Luck either way and I wish the best for all of you involved in this situation.

-Lamarr

Thank you for your opinion. Unfortunately, the puppy owner is located across the country from me. I'm in Michigan and he's in Arizona. The owner isn't mad or upset....nor is he even asking for money back. He called asking advice because his vet and the specialist(who supposedly used to work for OFA) he was referred to is now pressuring to do 3500.00 worth of surgery. In MY mind...this throws a red flag but I'm certainly not an expert. Regardless, I need some good information before considering another breeding and for my own peace of mind!

Thanks again,

Carrie

Do you have something in your contract with new owners regarding if something like this were to happen? If I were you and the person is asking for advice, give him such. Tell them to get a second opinion either way just to be safe. Offer to pay for the visit and new xrays if that will help. As for advice, it depends on the surgery, but it is best for the dog to be older than 8-10 months for a total hip replacement. If they are pressuring the owner, that alone should be a red flag so you are correct in feeling that way. But again, that is why a second opinion would help.

I know you are in another state, but you can do research over the internet to find another specialist. Also, with a site like leerburg that is worldwide, you can probably find people in Arizona who have dealt with or can recommend a specialist there.

And on a side note, not to take away from the OFA people, but they can only work with the xrays they are given. Like discussed in that article, they see a lot of bad xrays so you need to make sure they see the best ones available. This goes for that specialist you said the owner saw. They are very critical, but there is always room for human error.

-Lamarr

17 weeks old?????? What the hell. I've seen 10 month old pups that had terrible hips and turned out to be fine at 14 months old. I'd fire the vet that was telling me my 17 week old pups hips were bad. Let the pup grow up first, then decide what his hips are like. 17 weeks is way too young to make a final determination. I wouldn't even bother x-raying at that age if the pup seemed otherwise normal.

Vets like to be doomsayers when it comes to hips.

This may be a stupid question but I'm going to ask anyway. I was told that a pups bones don't fully calcify until they are 8-12 months of age. If this is the case how can hips be assessed if some of the bone material is yet cartilage?

I have been in contact with the buyer and expressed my concern over the 'push' for surgery. The buyer is swimming the dog and is otherwise very happy with the puppy. My contract does offer a replacement dog upon the return of the dysplastic dog or a discounted dog from a future litter. I'm not sure if my buyer is getting swindled by a money hungry Vet. or if I'm getting swindled for an additional dog or if we have our first case of dysplasia.

I've spoken with 3 vets in our rural community who have all stated it's crazy to think you could make a diagnosis at this age and with no clinical symptoms. My vet has not had a chance to review the x-rays but has stated that severe dysplasia could be seen in a very young dog...although uncommon. All of them admitted that they are not experts in the area of hip assessment and are even leary of the OFA process. The question has become, "Who is an expert that can be trusted?"

Thank you to everyone that has taken the time to offer an opinion and advice. To me, the possibility of my first dysplasia case is devastating news that I take seriously. I'm all ears if anyone has any words of wisdom, advice or opinion. I'll continue to search out an expert in Arizona for my own set of x-rays but would like to wait until the pup is older.

Carrie

The reason why I say this dog needs to be checked out is because of safety reasons. The xrays aren't the only tell all and like your vet said it is possible though uncommon. I know this puppy is 17 weeks old, but from another standpoint when you are around a dog constantly, it can be sometimes difficult to notice a little unnecessary movement. That is where the funny gait comes into play. I by no means am defending the vet but am just being careful. What you can do is just get a tape of the dog running, walking, sitting, standing,etc. to get a full evaluation of the dogs movement. All of this needs to be done from directly infront and behind the dog mainly, but side views should be included too. If you can give that tape to your vet, you can have definite proof of whether or not something is worth keeping an eye on or not.

Also, I went back and looked at all your other posts but didn't see this mentioned. Give the veterinarian a call. Usually the vet will talk to you if the owner requests it. And get all of the records faxed to you as well, not just the radiology report. This way you wont just get a one sided part of the issue. This is a huge claim and as your first case, I would be on top of this so you can get to the bottom of this mainly for your own sake.

Most people deny claims like this because it is hard to imagine it is possible. But it would be worse to just act as if everything is 100% ok just to find out later it really wasn't. In 9 out of 10 cases it is all fine, but there is still 1 in 10 chances it isn't. This is why I don't recommend that you as a breeder tell this person to let this dog grow up. You need to let this person feel secure. And you can always ask your vet to contact the owner about the results of their findings too.

-Lamarr

Great point about asking for a copy of the records and possibly video of the dog in action. I didn't think about that. My vet has been in contact with this vet and it seems communication is very open.

I'll keep you posted.

Carrie

 Quote:

I'm not sure if my buyer is getting swindled by a money hungry Vet.

That one!!