Thanks Sue.

I've pretty well done that, but maybe I just haven't been consistent enough. The problem is that in those 15 minutes she'll go.

I've tried ignoring it but I felt bad doing so, and then I discovered that if I ignore it she'll eat her poop, which I don't want her doing either.

She doesn't get freedom, as she has to stay with me while I clean up, but she does get attention. I've started trying to ignore her more but obviously she still gets some when I clean up.

Edit: David, I just saw your advice. I'm not sure Teagan would be a good dog to try that on. I have heard of 'matching' dogs before to get them to go, I don't think it's for me, and I'm pretty sure Teagan, while very attached to me, would not react in a way that would be appreciative.

T-Dot Jenny,

how long after you put her back in her crate does she go to the bathroom?

Is it immediately, 15 minutes, 20 minutes???

Anywhere from a few minutes to around 20 minutes, I'd say. Will not do it while I'm there (her crate is in the dog's room).

Edit again: I am going to be redoing the dog's room (tonight or this weekend) to make it the dog's room/reading room, so maybe that will help too.

so she won't elimintate in the crate if you're in the room?

tough call.

Has ANYTHING changed lately, routine wise or just home wise?
I noticed that (from FB) you have been attending quite a few run's, etc etc. Are you away more than normal lately? Is "T" left behind more than normal.

now im not judging!!! I know you can't take her with you all the time like Neb & Luc. And i understand that totally!! I have to do the same thing with Tucker. Im just thinking outside the box here

 Quote: Jennifer Mullen

I've been trying that but maybe I'm not being patient enough. Her poop time is at my bedtime, so I think after 20 minutes I tend to be like 'ARGH'. Maybe a longer walk at bedtime is prescribed, adn then the partying.

The problem is it's hard to reward her outside, b/c she is muzzled, so treats and toys....eh. I can awkwardly treat her though, which is better than nothing.

You can adjust the poop time by adjusting mealtimes.

Having the dog outside when she needs to go is really the bottom line, whether it's staying out with her long enough, logging poop times so you are outside at those times, or a combo.

And yes, I would be prepared for awkwardly treating, because I would want outdoor potty to regain its glitter for her. Tiny bits of cooked bacon, just for potty-outside, can be a lovely attraction.

Try using the hand clap. It will take a couple of days to work if you're consistent. Even if you get him out once or twice he's not going to learn.

From what you describe, your dog has learned the same exact thing my dog has learned--go to the bathroom in my crate & I am immediately released.

Your dog is controlling the signals to get out of his crate (pee/freedom poop/freedom). You need to change that by controlling the signal (clap/freedom). You just need to make sure he has enough opportunities to go potty. You should also put him in his crate often & then immediately clap/release throughout the day (even if it isn't time to go potty). All dogs do things for a reason--if there isn't a reason to soil his crate (freedom), he won't do it. When he learns that the only time he gets out of his crate is when you give the signal (clap or whatever you choose) he will give up--IF you are consistent. Eating a few turds won't hurt him.

Wendy, I've wondered that. I'm making sure she is included as much as possible lately (she won't be with us Sunday, but will on Saturday's hike and Neb will stay with her Sunday so it's not like she's singled out and left alone. We'll be going to a big race though and I'm not sure it's the best situation for her - well, it would be good practice, though I know Toby would prefer we bring a dog that won't try to kill other dogs ).

Connie, bacon is a great idea! I will have to get behind awkward treating.

Sue, I will try it. I think for her it's attention, not freedom, that she's getting, but the basic idea of how to deal with it holds solid, so.

This is great! I have a bunch of things to try!

Oh, and Connie, I recently moved their mealtimes back to this. They get up really early in the mornings if fed in the morning (like 4 am), and with Toby moving in soon, there is a solid request to not have any morning feedings. With their exercise then, bedtime feedings make the most sense. I don't want to be feeding them all at separate times, even if Neb does now get an extra meal!

Hey Jennifer,
This reminds of a 15 month bitch I had at my home for similar training issue last year. She had all of a sudden started "going" inside her indoor kennel! Came to me so I could break this habit. Well I never realized a dog could hold so long. It was a very messy week. She went numerous times in her crate.I tried everything. Was not just poo but pee also. I put shavings in the outside pen,like at her home and outside kennel. One thing I noticed is you mentioned she gets attention when she goes in the crate. If I may suggest you remove her from the room with no fuss whatsoever while cleaning the crate. Also (this sounds gross) take a piece, and place where you would like her to go. Use a word or phrase, like hurry up.Take her to same place always, for now. It was like house-breaking a pup. After 3 days she peed outside and after 6 she pooped. I would take her on long brisk walks, stand outside for 30 minutes every 2 hours and low and behold when I wasn't around the crate..surprise,presents.Frustrating, yes,inpossible to break, no. It will happen. Also is the crate near the exit door?I found this helped me. The reward when she acomplished what was expected was she was allowed into main home.The methods I mentioned I just stuck to and eventually she responded and went home to breeder.Hope this helps.
Kerri

Thanks Kerri! That's very helpful. Last night I mis-read how long she would hold it since she'd be fasted the night before, I thought maybe she didn't have to go. Sigh. Well, to buckle down, we'll get it.

You guys are giving me hope!

Me?
I'd probably set up something out in the yard that resembled a crate. Only without a bottom.
It'd be easy to move for cleaning up, easily expandable and cheap to put together. Just light wire.
I'd give her some place to go that's something familiar, ala the crate, and then I'd work from there.

ETA,
I'm not going to comment on sticking a match up her a**.