I have been doing restrained recalls at Schutz training. I have also done them at home. Also, positive marker training on the recall all the time. If we are out on a walk I'll let the long lead, which I have, play out and call. The recall is always on my mind and I am always trying to positively reinforce it and avoid any negative associations with it. i.e. not calling and correcting for behavioral things.

Let me define "woods" as well so you get the idea. They are about 100-300 yards wide with houses on one side (backyards) and a small river on the other. Not many people go back there and usually we don't see a soul. If we do come across someone else I usually notice them before he does and I'm able to leash him up prior to any meetup.

I have the chuckit, long line, and almost all of eds DVD's with the exception of DD. I would be more concerned with the line getting caught on a tree or branch and snapping him. We tug several times a day, and anytime I"m outside or sitting on the couch I'm tossing a ball/toy.

2 weeks ago Captain was 70lbs. He has more energy than my three kids combined, and that says a lot! He pulls on the leash like a freaking clydsdale! I'm a 230lb. guy who has a hard time holding on to him if he's motivated to get to something. Everyone has been saying to walk him with a prong, which I just ordered. Part of my confusion is that if he is ok to walk with a prong, which he will self correct his pulling then why isn't low level stim ok? aren't they essentially the same thing?

Thanks so much for your time and replies.

I'm curious. What did your SchH trainer say about it? (I misunderstood -- didn't realize that you were already doing SchH training until the post above this one.)

I use both a prong and an e-collar with Hans. One of the differences between the prong and the e-collar is that the physical feeling of the prong is a constant presence. The dog can 100% control the effect of the prong on his body. I can't get into a dogs head any better than anyone else, but it seems to me that once the prong was on Hans he pretty much self taught himself what happens if he pulls or puts any pressure on the leash.

The stim from the e-collar is different. It comes from out of nowhere. The dog can't feel a gradual build up to something uncomfortable. It just happens.

And if your dog goes into full drive, don't be surprised if a mild stim has no effect on him. He may not even feel it.

I spoke with my TD yesterday and he said low level was ok. He suggested that I start using it while the dog is on a long line though because the stim apparently comes from nowhere and the dog may become confused and run under deck or behind a bush. If he's on the LL then I can reel him in. Makes sense to me. I'm in no rush to use it.

As far as the SchH training is concerned the only thing we've done at this age is:
Gone over the jump, 1 board
Gone over the a-frame set very low
Practice walking through a crowd of neutral people
Restrained recalls
Mostly building drive for the helper-feeding and backing up
Restraining the dog, me running behind a blind and when the dog commits to one side running around the other and playing/food/tug when he gets to me.

Yesterday we tried using the rag on a stick. We did it twice. The first time he wasn't into it at all, second I did the rag and the TD held him and he was better. I was worried after the first time but TD said it's still early for him.

 Quote: connie sutherland

 Quote: steve strom

For myself, effecting his drive wouldnt be why I wouldn't and haven't used the ecollar on my dogs at that age. I don't think I've done enough of the focus and foundation work at that age yet like your TD is talking about. ... But thats only my opinion.

Mine too.

Are you using marker training, positive and upbeat? Why do you think you're going to need an e-collar now?

I am worried because I live in the city so I am looking to make boundaries for my dog and I don't want to wait until he is a year old. Examples would be him never going out my side gate or garage door. Yes I am doing mostly all motivational training but he is also a house dog so he understands "no" etc. In my mind, even though I am religous about keeping things locked, its important to make sure that the situation is idiot proof when it comes to my dog.

In my mind an e-collar, prong collar, "no" command are all corrections and they all come from me so is there really a difference as long as the intensity is consistent and just enough to get the point across? Also I am concerned with corrections and their effect on drive. Keep in mind I don't have a dog facility or land. I have a home in the city and I am trying to make my dog safe and happy in it while working on drive and focus.

I used the ecollar on my Rott for similar reasons, but when he was older and had done quite a bit of obedience. He wanted to chase everything, especially squirrels and it was getting dangerous. You have to make sure they make the right association with why they are being corrected. For myself, I think that would be tough with a puppy until you've spent more time teaching him what you do want.

Someone else here may have a different opinion, or even experience with what you want and it may not be that tough, maybe I'm wrong. Corrections have always been tougher in training for me then the rewards and positive parts of things.

I appreciate the response, and I agree. I don't think you need corrections until after the dog understands what you want.

Have you thought about spending more time on a recall first?

If you mean a recall as in a "come here command" then yes he is great with it. I have 2 one that is for competition and one for non-serious around the house stuff. He is also great with sit, laydown, stay needs more work at high distraction but recall always works.