I think everybodys definition of "high drive" is different. I also think it's actually easier to train a drivey vs a low drive dog. The GSD is a utility dog and with some time spent training will adapt to anything. Steering folks towards showlines is a disaster for the breed. Not every pup is a monster in every litter and most breeders can "fit" the right working lines to the right home,

Actually I am a fan of the standard poodle Tracy. But point taken!

besides the concern of a working line dog being put into a shelter or PTS because the inexperinced person got in over thier head, I wouldn't want to have GSDs go the way of the Pit Bull Terriers where "game" dogs end up in less then desirable homes, w/ little to no training, allowed to roam and pack or gets ranky with a child, Hell, I'd bet there are working line GSD breeders that wouldn't sell me a dog and they would be right to do so

 Quote: al curbow

The GSD is a utility dog and with some time spent training will adapt to anything. Steering folks towards showlines is a disaster for the breed.

I'm beginning to see the light... If I continue to purchase show line GSD's, even ones I tried my best to get great hips, elbows, attitude, etc... there is always going to be that pathetic, can't walk correctly, deformed "champion" in the show ring, isnt' there?

Gosh, I wish Betty hadn't talked about that little female pup she has...

Way to go Barbara!!!!, lol

When it comes to owning high drive working dogs,many people like to talk the talk but fail at the walk the walk part. Lets face it...there are days that we don't feel our best, are sick or are tired, had a long bad day at work...but your dog(s) still need to be worked. You have to ask if people are willing to adjust their lifestyle to acomidate the needs of this kind of dog. Many people think that they do, but often times you see these rambunctious dogs turned into the rescues & shelters between 1 & 1 1/2 years old. Or worse, isolated & kenneled in the back yard or crated most of the time, because they can't cope. It is a commitment to get up an hour or more earlier in the am before work to 'work' your dogs & for most working dogs, this is not a walk around the block 1 or 2x. Then when you come home from work, late, tired etc. you still have to do it all again & then some. It's not gee, lets sleep late on Sat & Sunday, it's get up & work the dogs. You need to be willing to be out training not matter if it is pouring rain, snow, sleet 95' heat & humidity etc. If considering high drive dogs, you need to make that commitment & stick with it. That commitment is alot easier during the 'honeymoon' period, but the commitment is for 12 years or more. Are they up to it or will they be over their heads within a few months time & the dog will be the one to suffer from this bad fit.

I agree that there are often different levels of drive within litters, but these dogs are still usually 'more' then the pet lab or golden in its needs. I have a friend that adopted a 1 yr old lab from a family that had been crated most of that year with no training, because the family had no idea what to do with the dog. This was NOT a working line lab,just a show line dog, but just a typical playful dog. It also seems that the people that are newbes to working dogs are the ones that the highest drive most dominante dog from the hardest most HA dog lines out there. I have seen a few dogs that breeders have sold to people that were so unsuited just because they needed to move dogs, because they depend on this for their livelyhood. These are not puppy mills but BYBs that leave alot to be desired. This is wrong on so many levels. Not all breeders are like this, but I have to wonder with the ecconomy the way it is, will this become more common. I am working with someone now with an 7mo old (75+lb)GSD WL pup that was sold to them by a breeder (although he did not breed this particular dog) that basically dropped off the map after he got their money. He wouldn't return calls or e-mails for help in training or anything else & took 5 months to mail the registration 'papers' on the dog to them. This to me is sickening. They had no idea what to do to train this pup & have been struggling for 5 mnonths with him. Fortunately the pup is a nice sweet, not too drivey dog or they would have have been in much more trouble. But the dog has already formed some bad habits, thru their lack of knowledge, that need to be fixed & will take alot more time to do so then if they had had the 'tools' to know to not let this happen in the first place. IMO these would not have been issues if they had gotten a lab or golden as a first dog. The worst part is that this guy is not the only one out there doing this kind thing. Totally only in it for the money. JMO

Working Lines GSDs......


You ever see the movie "Gremlins"?

If you don't follow the instructions exactly......

The thing that I've found about working line dogs of any bred, ilk, drive or proclivities is that they are very determined to attain whatever it is that moves them.
Committing oneself to the individual dog, especially a GSD, is the most important thing. And not all have the intestinal fortitude to see it through for the dog everyone would like to be owned by.

Having gone from a very easy GSD, to a somewhat difficult Dutchie, I have recieved the crash course in "working line" dogs. The original post referred to "working lines." I think the real issue is matching the owner up to the correct breed. When people say "Your dog is beautiful, what breed is she?" I usually tell them she is a Dutch Shepherd and not a breed for everyone because she NEEDS a job. If someone is looking for a family pet to passify their kids, I point them in the direction of Golden Retrievers. (and I'm sure many other breeds). Golden's are highly trainable and love everyone. (aka pack drive isn't usually an issue.) If someone looking for a dog for dog sports the my opinion is somewhat different. I think even a green handler (like myself) can handle working lines if the commitment is there. The fact that they are interested in dog sports implies the intent for commitment is there. Unfortunately, most people today can not truly grasp a 10 to 15 year commitment. The numbers of dogs in shelters prove this and also indicates the problem is not just commitment to working line dogs, its a problem for family pets as well.

To me, and I'm a newb who will be getting my first working dog in the near future, it's about finding the right breed. To me there should only be working line GSDs, because that's how the GSD should be. If you can't handle a working line GSD, get a different breed. I don't think we should breed "down," so to speak. And what I mean is that a lot of people CAN'T handle a working line GSD, so instead of breeding mellower dogs for people to have as pets, these people should just not get a working dog in the first place.

Does that make sense? I know it's not what's going on now and has a lot to do with bad breeders who will sell working dogs to people who can't have them anyways, but I don't think that a person being unable to handle a working line dog is any sort of excuse for there to be show line dogs.

Does that make sense?

I lucked out with the Corgi and not having a huge split in the breed like there is with so many others.