Quote: steve strom

I think I shape everything by asking for a little better or faster etc... with each rep or session. I don't think I free shape anything.

How do you start a wanted behavior?

Just luring.

 Quote: steve strom

Just luring.

I use luring a lot (as opposed to free shaping).

I've seen (at least) two different ideas about the definition(s): That the way you start the work defines its method (lure, target, mark spontaneous offered actions), or that a behavior could be started with a lure, say, but then free-shaped.

At first I got completely confused between various books, until I realized that as long as you can figure out which the author means, it doesn't much matter.

Now I can't figure out what this post means, but it probably doesn't matter, either.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

Now I can't figure out what this post means, but it probably doesn't matter, either.

Just keep trying we'll let you know when you get it right

 Quote: Melissa Thom

.... Just keep trying we'll let you know when you get it right

Would that be free shaping?

Luring with dark chocolate will probably be way faster.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

Luring with dark chocolate will probably be way faster.

I respond very well to chocolate too... how about this:

I find free shaping very effective when introducing a new pup or dog into our pack structure. Independently seeking out and laying calmly on cushion - reward, entering a crate - reward, sitting at the door – reward, waiting in sit at open door (house/vehicle) – reward.

When I’m training obedience I lure and mark the behavior I’m looking for. I want calm focus and attention in between, not random fidgeting to get me to hurry up and respond.

Now having said that - each dog is different. Did I mention that my Malamute is crossed with an Aardvark? It’s like training a turtle. There must be something incredibly interesting in it for him or he’ll just walk away or give me a – “go play with your vacuum” look. So, needless to say, when he offers me up the odd random action that I’ve worked hard to try and teach him – jackpot rewards!! Granted, this doesn’t happen often – but if I see an effort in trying to engage with me; saying, “look I really was paying attention yesterday”, I always respond. Free shaping is the only way this pup learns. I’ve named the sit, down and stand which was free shaped since day 1 – I will get a response 90% of the time.

I’m with Melissa – it’s not for every dog. I think your high energy, eager-to- please; engaged, working dogs do a lot better with structured training. For the more independent, less focused dogs this gives you more/random opportunities to tell them when they are behaving correctly or performing an action that you see desirable.

I guess I don't see the point of free shaping random moments. It is a very inconsistent message that the dog isn't likely to repeat.

Things I use shaping for. Retrieving the right dumbbell when two or more are presented, encountering a new scary object, follow the white ball on a stick, and getting in the right crate when I have four of them available and open.

I find shaping is best for communicating a message where the dog has to work out why this is the solution in their own mind like in the case of scent retrieval. I can't tell the dog I want you to bring me the object I last picked up. I can only tell them that this is not the right object but the other one is. It's up to them to work out the puzzle through repetition.

Another one came to me... Most of us do this form of free shaping at some point when we house break our dogs.

Most housebreaking is a form of free shaping. The dog has the opportunity to show us many different behaviors but the only one we reward is when they pee/poop on the right spot. We can't tell the dog that outside is what we want since "outside to poop" isn't a concept we can lure the dog to. We lessen the randomness of that moment by crating, repetition, and tethering until they get that concept down.

I used free shaping a lot to teach Kasey just fun little tricks like wave, play dead and give me 5. He's very animated so I knew if I waited a bit, he would start acting silly and lifting his paw, throwing himself down on the floor, etc. So I would just mark when he's lift his paw for waving, and within a couple minutes he was lifting his paw all over the place! But I can see if you have a dog that just sits there and looks at you (I love the 'go play with your vacuum' quote!), that wouldn't work.

That's why I'm having trouble getting Kase to do more 'calm' stuff like just 'watch' because he's wanting to perform all the active stuff he's already learned! If I knew what I know now, I would have started with engagement in the first place!

I used luring to teach him to sit next to me though and that worked well.