Quote: Al Curbow

I'd want to see a dog you've trained from a pup and it would need to have monster obedience, that would help more than a certificate. I'm a student of the Will school of dog training!

Well yes of course, but I think the point of this thread is, what do you need on your resume to get your foot in the door. What would make someone chose this trainer over another with out them seeing a the trainer work a dog.

I think it all depends on what sort of training you want to do. If you are going to focus on pet/companion dog training, APDT certificates are something that pet people would be impressed with. Of course those of us who compete in performance know those certificates are worth no more than the ink they are printed with.

Bottom line nothing speaks better than gaining a reputation of being not only accomplished at training dogs but also the ability to effectively relay information to the dog owners/handlers.

Individuals that are successful at training dogs like Michael Ellis get that way because 1) they have exquisite timing and reading of dogs and 2) they have the ability to effectively relate what they are doing to the handlers who come to them for help. In my opinion, neither of these skills can readily be learned in a school.

With that said, while those traits can't be learned in a school, there is plenty of behavioral aspects to dog training that can be learned. If I did not have a career that was not conducive to taking a leave of absence, I would be at Michael's school in a heartbeat.

Craig, I keep asking myself the same thing. A certification looks good on paper and will help me gain more clients, but is it really worth the time? Also, I haven't heard really good things regarding ABC-I also considered going with them for a certificate of sorts, but didn't because some wise person here made me realize that not doing the "hands on" work like you'd get at a facility or with a pro trainer isn't the way to learn more about training.

I have made the decision that once my kids are older(one is almost 2 and the other is due the end of Aug.) then I will attend some of the courses that Michael Ellis has in CA. That, I think, is in my best interests for furthering my dog training.

I'm already very open to different training techniques and tools used for training, I started thinking that I really don't need to go to a school and gain a certificate, when I can go to seminars and go to CA for a M. Ellis course or two and put that in my credentials (which when you think about it, is almost the same thing, IMO).

Good luck!

Umm, I could be wrong here, but I think I remember someone saying that if you use ABC you have to call them and get permission before you use any kind of tool they don't really approve of (Prong collar, e-collar). Is that correct?

If it is, I'd personally hate to attach myself to a bureaucracy (I hate them) in an activity that is as much art as science. My 2 cents. ^_^

I agree with Will.
Here is an example from the horse world that I think is applicable if you are interested in any sort of "sport" training.
I used to train horses at a fairly high level.
In the horse world there are several "certification" programs as well, and most of them aren't worth the paper they are printed on...The notable exception being the USDF certifications.
Anyway, I never did get certified, and had no problem getting clients at all. I started by having my own well trained winning horse, and volunteered with an organization and gave lessons on the side at a ridiculously low price.
I also found a really respected trainer that had a bunch of clients, and slaved myself out to her in exchange for lessons and watching her training sessions.
My horse kept winning, and my students within weeks of starting with me went on to place high in their shows.
At that point, I could charge more, and so on.
The proof is in the pudding.

If you are interested in more pet training, the same idea can apply, volunteer with an established organization. Then you will eventually be able to build your own clientele fairly quickly as people see that you are good at what you do.
When I was training dogs and doing behavior consulting stuff, this is how I did it.
I has no problem quickly building a bunch of business. If your techniques work, and people get results, they will pass that on to other people.
I do know, that having the wrong certification can and will hurt your business. The sport people who know better won't touch you, and I don't think your average person knows or cares much about certification...unless they are the type you don't want to deal with anyway.
Volunteer, charge on the low end, work your butt off, and rely on word of mouth with creative marketing....go to some real dog training seminars...Michael Ellis....and you will be fine.
JMO.

I really value your good comments & advice everyone, thanks again. Ingrid you really sum up how I'm feeling about all this (even more so after reading these replies) very nicely.

I think for me, part of this is... we've all met trainers and behaviorists that have lots of fancy letters that follow their name. Is my quest for this illustrious certification a means of being taken more seriously by this crowd, when meeting and interacting with them? Maybe that is in the back of my mind somewhere - the need to be part of that "club", if that makes sense. I've even read somewhat recent comments here like "you Americans become trainers because you decide to call yourself that one day..." (paraphrasing), and I think, gee I hope no one ever says that about me.

Another side of me says, the only person I really need to impress or prove anything to is myself, and if I decide to make a business venture out of this someday, my clients. Should I care about those that think "if you don't have a piece of paper from a school, you're not a real trainer"? Nope. If I can back up what I'm offering with my own dogs' performance, our titles & accomplishments and effective communication.. I should be just fine.

So, I'm not hearing any resounding praises of ABC, which is giving me a pretty clear answer to the "help or hurt" question. I sent in inquiry to them and received a reply with the email address that ended in "dawgbiz.net". Which, not to be negative here but that just didn't feel very professional to me (yes I'm a details person! ha).

My path up to this point has been:

1) Work really hard and be successful with my own dogs.
2) Compete in obedience, rally and agility because A) it's really fun and B) I get certificates... for what I've accomplished.
3) Work with homeless dogs and people that don't have money to pay for training because not only does this help them, it's also experience for me.
4) Attend seminars (Ellis' school someday!) and learn as much as I can from trainers that are successful, and that are fair & kind to dogs.

I also recently got involved with a search & rescue organization here in PA, I'm trying to work that into my schedule because it's a good cause and I'm surrounding myself with some very knowledgeable, experienced and professional trainers.

Sorry to run on a bit here, but hammering this out on paper / screen helps me a lot.

Sounds like an excellent plan to me!


In the horse world there is something called a "working student".
Its where you find a respected trainer and in exchange for doing the dirty work about the stable, mucking stalls, cleaning tack, mending fences..etc. you get free lessons and instruction, and observe the training they provide others.
I wonder if you could make a similar arrangement with some one in your area that you respect and could learn from.
Just an idea...
Good luck!!!!

if i ever needed a trainer at some point in my life, it wouldn't so much matter to me what fancy certificates they had, proven results are what i would be looking for.

The proof is definately in the pudding.

You can be as fancy as you like in the kitchen, use terms i don't understand and use elaborate ingredients but nothings going to impress me or prove a thing to me until i get to eat what you're cookin' and see for myself if you know what you're doing.

Fancy (certificates) does not a cook (trainer) make.