Quote: Mara Jessup

 Quote:

Benny is good with people and most dogs, but he is very aggressive towards dogs that show aggression to him, and to skate boarders and wants to chase cats. He is gentle with our house cats, so it is just the thrill of the chase. Benny’s aggression does not seem to be fear based, but macho posturing, and with skate boarders, prey aggression, and with the cats; prey and play.

That sounds like a perfectly normal, high drive, confident adolescent dog. In fact, my sweet submissive but high drive 15 m/o dog would do most of those if she had a chance. Why do you think he's dominant?

You are right, Benny is ore a confident healthy adolescent.I am wrong to use the word dominance to describe aggression. The Dominate and Aggressive Dog DVD lists 16 causes of aggression, and dominance is only one. I am no expert but know Benny and read him pretty well. His aggression toward other big dog is not fear based. It may be male on male, or dominance. His ears are forward. He is lunging, growling and pulling me towards these type of dogs. I am very worried we will encounter a loose one.
With cats there is no growling, just barking and lunging. It is play/prey aggression. With the skate boarders he growls and lunges like he does with other big dogs.

 Quote: debbie greco

... For walks where I know we may face lots of triggers I am using the prong with the Dominate Dog collar. When I see an approaching trigger I move Benny to the side, play the LAT game, turn him the other way, and mark and treat when he focuses on me. When Benny lunges aggressively I either give him a strong prong correction or lift his front legs off the ground. I only weigh 98 and Benny weighs 85 so my strongest prong correction is probably only a level 5.

I think you are deliberately setting out on a walk where you may be "facing lots of triggers" and neither of you is ready (at all!) for that.


I think you misunderstood some of the advice in the thread a week or so ago. I'd re-read that and the links, too.

 Quote: willie tilton

I suggest re-watching the pack structure video.
Ed points out in this video that the social isolation stage take a minimum of a week.
The dog won't listen to you regarding the dog aggression because he hasn't been through the pack structure program.
This takes time.

Willie, When I watched the DVD I thought the social isolation was to let the dog know you are the pack leader. Benny at 11 months does seem to know this. He know to lay down and wait for me to release him for his food. He gives me a nice "down" before I throw a ball or play tug. He does not get on the furniture, ( excpet when invited on the bed and gets off when told) He releases toys when I say "Give" He follows me from room to room in the house. He gets a lot of exercise on my 3 days off,(One three mile in the am and an hour of playing tug, fetch interspersed with training in the afternoon. We also do training in the house. He gets groomed each of my three days off and one a week his teeth get brushed.

On the 4 days I work 11 hours he gets the 3 mile walk in the morning and an hour of training, play when I get home. During those days he is crated but let our every few hours for potty breaks and short play by various family members.

Do you really think it necessary to socially isolate him when he is so well behaved except for these triggers? It seems cruel to me.

In the DVD I thought the social isolation was mostly for new dogs being brought into the home,

If your dog knows sit and knows not to break that sit, it would save you trying to figure out all the different terms like dominance or prey, or male/male, etc...

Would teaching him that be easier using a little distance to progress from no distractions to heavier distractions to actual triggers for him or putting him right in the middle of his triggers and trying to prong-choke him out of it?

 Quote: steve strom

If your dog knows sit and knows not to break that sit, it would save you trying to figure out all the different terms like dominance or prey, or male/male, etc...

Would teaching him that be easier using a little distance to progress from no distractions to heavier distractions to actual triggers for him or putting him right in the middle of his triggers and trying to prong-choke him out of it?

In an eloquent nutshell.

Debbie, the links and the advice and the terminology above really do distill into what Steve is saying here.

 Quote: steve strom

If your dog knows sit and knows not to break that sit, it would save you trying to figure out all the different terms like dominance or prey, or male/male, etc...

Would teaching him that be easier using a little distance to progress from no distractions to heavier distractions to actual triggers for him or putting him right in the middle of his triggers and trying to prong-choke him out of it?

This works.

Debbie, from reading what you have said about your dog, I would bet that your problems probably don't stem from dominance, aggression or anything nasty. He's probably just easily overstimulated. Plus, he's young and inexperienced it the world.

My dog is exactly like this in certain situations. As an example, when we pass a dog who is jogging with its owner, she lunges, growls, barks and generally flips out. If you didn't know her you would think she was totally dog aggressive. Its a pretty impressive show.

I am 100% sure that she is not an aggressive dog under any circumstances. Its just an overstimulating situation for her. The solution has been to move off to the side or cross the street and put her in a sit. It works every time.

We also had trouble for a while with fast moving cars. She would lunge and bark like a nut! People who saw her would back away and cross the street.

I found that it was better when we were moving in the same direction as the cars. so we worked on it from there.

I live in a pretty densely populated area, there is no way to leave the house without running into these situations. I can tell you that we have had walks where I have put her in a sit, every 50 feet or so, for two or three miles!

Its gotten a lot better simply doing this. Remember, sit is the opposite of jump and lunge! If the dog is concentrating on sitting, and far enough away from the troubling situation to feel safe, it won't freak out.

I just thought of another situation that feigns dog aggresion frequently with my dog.

Debbie, I'm curious if this might be part of what is going on with your dog, since some dogs are fine and others are not. I'm also curious of other people who own breeds that are "scary" to some folks have ever had this happen.

We are on a walk and approaching another on leash dog with its owner. The owner is worried at the sight of my dog and tenses up, and his/her dog starts a staring contest. As we pass each other, explosion ensues.

 Quote: connie sutherland

I think you are deliberately setting out on a walk where you may be "facing lots of triggers" and neither of you is ready (at all!) for that.

Oh no not at all. I try to walk at times and places where there should be less triggers ( 5:30- 6:30 am most days) I said their "may" be lots of triggers because like Lauren I live in a crowded town that never sleeps. I have taken Benny on this same route since he was 8 weeks old ( carrying him at first ) He did not begin reacting to other dogs, skate boarders etc, until he was 7 months. From the time I got Benny at 8 weeks until he was 20 weeks I socialized him like crazy. He got used to skate boarders, people in wheel chairs, walkers and canes when we visited my mom in an Alzheimers facility. He got used to children, power tools.

I have been reading the link and will listen to the Theory of Corrections pod cast today. I think Steves advice about getting him to sit, ( although "down" is Benny;s default behavior) and very gradually lessening the distance and increasing distraction is key. I agree that Benny is probably not really dominant so much as he is an intact male teenager, ( will be neutered at age 2)
He just needs the impulse control that will come with continued training and maturity.

As far as Pack Structure. I think Benny does see me as pack leader but now as a teenager he is challenging my leadership. which is normal.

This morning our walk was great. He has been wearing an empty back pack the past three days and it seem to calm him for some reason. There were three joggers coming toward us, side by side and hogging the past, so I moved Benny off to the side and plyed the LAT game, rewarded him, released him to sniff the grass and he calmly watched the joggers go by. These are the same three he lunged at a few weeks ago.

My original confusion was how does the Dominant Dog and prong collars fit in with Marker training? The training classes I attended with Benny used all marker training but said there was no place for prongs or Dominant collars in positive training, but Ed seems to feel they are no mutually exclusive.

 Quote: Lauren Jeffery

I just thought of another situation that feigns dog aggresion frequently with my dog.

We are on a walk and approaching another on leash dog with its owner. The owner is worried at the sight of my dog and tenses up, and his/her dog starts a staring contest. As we pass each other, explosion ensues.

Yes, Lauren this is a big part of it. Benny reacts to dogs and people who stare at him ( give him the stink eye) If a person says hello or ignores us he does not react.

It's not really a long jump Debbie.
You use marks to teach the dog the behavior. Once you know he knows, (let's say) he must sit until you release him. Now you can hook the leash on the pinch. he breaks the sit, nay...sit.
Good dog!
So now, he sits for you until you release to toilet paper the house.
So now he downs for you until you release him to kill the strange cat.

See? No problem, it's easy.