So everytime the dog goes out he taking a chance on being injuried no matter how strong his neck is are how big and strong a dog he is. Would it be wrong to say that the little dogs energitic dog that jumps high and slams the decoy are more prone to injuries then the big ones that just catch the decoy and snachtes his arm or shoulders to hell?

With the shortage of helpers in teh different clubs and such how can you continue to work your dog and not be subject to accidents like this?

Should start pooling money to send our decoys to school? How much can you get out of Ed's Video on the subject and the timing be seen and highlighted?

DON ACKERSON WROTE:
So every time the dog goes out he taking a chance on being injured no matter how strong his neck is are how big and strong a dog he is. Would it be wrong to say that the little dogs energetic dog that jumps high and slams the decoy are more prone to injuries then the big ones that just catch the decoy and snatches his arm or shoulders to hell?

MTR:
It would stand to reason that the smaller faster dogs, which come fast, are going to get injured more often from poor helper work then a bigger dog that just slows down and grabs the sleeve. This is often seen with Malinois, the issue of speed. I know of a handful of Malinois some not that small but very fast, that are permanently injured due to poor catches on the courage test. My advice is don’t do them with a dog that is proficient at doing a courage test very often, and then only do it with a safe decoy. Furthermore I would not train the courage test with a young or green dog on a decoy that is not sure. And really the stronger the dog, the more prone to injury due to a bad catch the dog is.

DON ACKERSON WROTE:
Should start pooling money to send our decoys to school? How much can you get out of Ed's Video on the subject and the timing be seen and highlighted?

MTR:
Well education cannot hurt anyone as long as it is from the right teacher. USA is now developing a Helpers Program that hosts seminars. DVG has it in place. If you do not have a good helper or at least a decent one, and there is no one with the knowledge to guide an aspiring decoy, then tapes cannot hurt, but I think it is best to have some hands on instruction. I have seen both tapes, and it is done with Tom Rose, who is like a founding father of Schutzhund in the States, so sure there is some valuable information in there for a decoy that is green or looking to improve. The tapes are older, but still contain information that will not hurt someone that wants to learn decoy work.

Mr. Rivers,
Unfortunately my last working dog was permanently injured by a helper when he swung the dog off the ground during a short run-off. The decoy, a military dog handler, did a good job of catching the dog but he lifted him off the ground and spun him to reduce the shock of the hit. When he brought the dog back down it broke the dogs' left ankle, leaving him with a permanent injury. This was an injury that forced me to retire him. Another problem our K9 unit encountered was that we were using SUVs for patrol vehicles and we were experiencing some problems with neck/back and shoulder injuries from the shock of the dogs constantly landing at a steep angle upon exiting the vehicle. This was seen more in the older(4-7 yoa) dogs so we switched to Crown Vics. No problems since. Many incidents cannot be foreseen but changing the things you can will definately expand the working life of your partner.

That is interesting about the injury to your dog’s ankle. Thanks for the information. Funny you had mentioned the trouble about the dogs jumping. I am just about convinced that excessive jumping at weird angles does a lot of damage to a dog’s body. I would conclude that the injuries to your dogs was the fact that they jumped out of the SUV often as you have not had any trouble with the dogs since going to the Crown. A lot of people do not think this, but I almost never let my dogs jump out of my truck, for this very same reason. I think a lot of damage is caused by these seemingly effortless tasks that a lot of dogs perform day in and day out. Thanks again for the information.

So Howard is it better to take a couple steps back to absorb impact, rather then swing the dog in the air? A lot of dogs seem to like that swing and tighten their bite and enjoy the ride. Did your dogs legs cross or did they jam into the ground.

What type surface were you practicing on soft grass or a harder surface? I'm asking for help in preventive ideas. Military decoy, sounds like he had the time in.

That had to be heart breaking all that time and training, washed.

So MTR the bigger dog is less prone to injury because of his approach and he may not be that easy to get off the ground, if this is true then a new decoy should never lift a dog off the ground or do long run bites. If there are no exeperince decoys available, what do you do? Repeat basic bite work? Or go to another club?

What are the injuries invovled in muzzle work? Theres alot of impact and odd angles done in this type work. I don't hear a lot of talk of injuries to the dog in this part of training.

Sure if the dog is big and slower, if the decoy is not a total buffoon, it would stand to reason that the dog is less prone to getting hurt. I have seen some bigger fast dogs get jammed bad, but really it is not so much the point on the size of the dog, but the skill of the decoy.

If you do not have a good decoy, I would not do any type of long catches with a dog. The risk outweighs the reward with this type of situation. The chance of ruining a dog is too great, and really there is no benefit to your dog to have someone incompetent catching your dog on a long bite. Go to another decoy would be my advice if you do not want to injure your dog. There is a difference between someone that is not that smooth catching but is not jamming the dog terribly and someone that is just running out there with a sleeve and not having a clue as to what they are doing. Another problem with the higher drive fast dogs, is that even if they are jammed and feeling pain, they normally do not complain until the damage is pretty bad and irreversible.

If you don't have an experienced helper to catch a dog, you can still train for the courage test if you have a secure post/pole. Attach a 10 meter bungee line to a post/pole and then connect the bungee leash to one or two 10 meter lines to create the distance you want. After you connect your leashes, stretch out the lines to see where they end...then mark that area with spray paint or some other visible marker so your decoy knows to get to that exact spot. This way the agitator can catch the dog safely without worrying about spinning him to the left or right...he just needs to go with the bungee and let the dog land on all fours safely. Using the bungee with the long lines for the long attack makes the dog strike and maintain a firm grip...he needs to bite hard or he will come off the sleeve. It also can help create speed for the dogs that are slow on the entree as they are forced to run harder to get to the decoy. Remember to always use a harness on the dog when using the bungee with this method. I hope this helps. -Greg

Here is a link that shows a dog was hurt from a courage test, he is the father of my puppy.
http://www.malinois.com/otvitosha/django.htm
Scroll down to the bottom and look at the blue picture.