Kelly,

From what I'm reading, because I haven't had any practice yet, marker training is all about the timing and being consistent. I recently read the book Reaching The Animal Mind by Karen Pryor. She has some videos on the website for the book to watch while you're reading the book, but no reason you can't take a peek at them now. http://www.reachingtheanimalmind.com/ . I borrowed the book from my local library. I found it fascinating. I highly recommend exploring the "system".

For myself, I think I'd be too slow with the voice marker, at least to start with. So I plan to use a clicker then wean to the voice. She mentions more than once that this system is very forgiving. Mistakes are much easier to repair than with corrections.

 Quote: kelly schultz

How would you use the marker training for correction? For example, jumping on guests, pulling on the walk. Whenever he walks next to me nice, I always tell him, "Good, walking nice" and give him a treat. But then, he's instantly pulling again. If I say "Walk nice", he will usually slow down and look at me until he gets a treat (only for so long though). Also, how would that help the biting? I think it's great for reinforcing the good behavior, but what about the bad? Again, I haven't read the whole article yet - if it tells me in there, I will get to it.

Marker training is 100% positive, non-corrective in the way you mean. If the dog does not perform correctly, he gets a simple "nope" and no reward. If I were using markers to "train" a dog to not jump on people, I would use the sit, place, down, etc... to give him something RIGHT to do instead of jumping. Same thing with biting (which you could also redirect with an exciting leather rag, etc...) you would be giving a command for him to DO (touch, sit). Now let me say I think all dogs should know "OFF" or "LEAVE IT", but again, you can teach this with markers. Don't focus right now on stopping the jumping - put that energy toward TEACHING something he can or should do, and for which he gets a reward - does that make sense?

Markers can definitely be used to teach a nice walk, heel - everything really. Read the entire article a few times to let it sink in. Instead of saying something like "nice walk" you would select a word to use (I use YES) and that would be the word you use in all training sessions to MARK the moment the dog performs the wanted behavior. I personally would not use the heeling/walking nice lesson as the first to train with markers only because it is bit "vague" in my mind compared to "sit" or "down" - both of which are very clear in the wanted behavior... butt on the floor or body on the floor. Heeling/walking might be a bit fuzzy until the dog clearly knows the marker means he is doing the right thing at that "moment".

Once he gets the idea that the mark (word or clicker) has value, then you begin using that to your and your dog's advantage. Use treats he LOVES. I start any marker training session with "Are you ready? Are you ready?" and letting Falcon see me getting the treat bag. He knows that means we are going to "work" and gets him anticipating the training.

Again, markers is all positive, and works because when done correctly, really engages your dog and gets him THINKING about what you two are doing together instead of just making him do something to avoid a correction. I'm not saying there is never a time for correction, but for a six month old pup, I really encourage you to read, read and try the markers. Teach him a few simple things - touch, place, roll over - what ever - then begin using those behaviors as the "right thing" to do when he is wanting to jump. It takes a bit of practice for a young dog to not want to jump, but if the rewards are high value enough, I think you will see a difference much faster than you think.

Sorry this is so long!

(ps... my maiden name was Schulze - close but no cookie.)

Kelly,

FYI…the “training” methods your current trainer uses are not accepted here by most people and you probably will not get very much help if that is the route you choose to go.

So, for one, I would stop going to this trainer, he\she uses corrections as the answer to all things, it is not good dog training. Spend your money elsewhere, there is very good videos that are sold here, look at the Pack Structure DVD, Basic Obedience, The Power of Training Dogs with Food (it is the intro DVD to markers) and possibly how to deal with dominate aggressive dogs. Spend your money on the videos instead of this “trainer” and possibly find a new trainer that can help you by not using only compulsion. Don’t get me wrong, most of us still use corrections at a certain point in training but not in the initial phases of training.

Second what you are doing on walks may not work, but you also don’t understand marker training, markers allow you to communicate with your dog using a few core words, I would look into it further…Barbra describes it pretty well…

The jumping on guests and biting people is pack structure stuff that you have let go and is now a problem that you will have to fix. The puppy sounds obnoxious and needs to learn some manners, this is your fault, not the puppies, you let this get this way by lacking leadership. To me that is defiantly NOT acceptable behavior. Maybe someone else will be able to help you but I would start pack structure all over with this pup, use the information on the Pack Structure DVD, but keep in mind you have a puppy.

The puppy does not need to play with children, this is potentially very dangerous, I would stop this immediately before something really bad happens!! Take a look at the dog bites pages on this website to learn more.

You may want to start a new post on some of your problems and spend some time reading the free articles to get a better grasp on the methods used by the people on this forum.

Sorry if this sounds too blunt, it is not meant to be

Welcome to Leerburg by the way!!

Again....how much exercise is the dog getting, and what type?
Willie

 Quote: Scott Kapphahn

Sorry if this sounds too blunt, it is not meant to be

Thats good to hear!

I currently walk him anywhere from 40-90 minutes a day, depending on what I have to do that day. That's broken up into 2-3 walks. We also do some fetch and when time allows, time in the yard to run. As far as the pack leadership, besides making him sit before meals, treats, playing, going out and in, etc... and having him eat after us, putting his toys away, what else are the biggies to do to get started with? I called the training facility today and left a message with them stating that I am not at all comfortable using the pinch collar. Within the past 48 hours, my pup has begun to revert back to the skittish puppy it took me so long to help. I asked if we could do the training without the pinch collar. I'll see what he says when he calls back.

Again, stop going to this “trainer”. The fact is this person probably does not know how to train a dog without compulsion, I would bet you are going to find this out shortly. You are going to make the problem much worse if you do, in my opinion of course.

Think about it this way, what lesson are you teaching your puppy?? He is nervous around new people, he meets new person (“trainer&rdquo, “trainer” picks up leash and corrects him (that hurts puppy), so what did he just learn?? He learned “new” people hurt me. Is that good for a nervous (skittish) dog?? Of course not, it just made him more leery around new people, and probably teaching him that best reaction to have is act aggressively to new people. Is that what you want???

Pack structure is more than what you described, what you do is very good, but there is more to the story. IMO, it is how you live with your dog, it is a set of rules you make, it is how you look at him, it is how you treat him (fairly and consistently), it is how you pet him, it is how talk to him, it is about mutual respect, it is about teaching the dog what you expect of him which is done in a fair manner, it is how you act around the dog……on and on….Pack Structure is not, IMO letting puppy get away with breaking the rules I have set, it is not letting puppy bite MY guest, it is not allowing puppy to disrespect MY rules, it is not pulling ME down the sidewalk….on and on….

Read this:

http://leerburg.com/puppygroundwork.htm

and this:

http://leerburg.com/groundwork.htm

On the walks is he out in front pulling, or next to you calmly walking.

Scott has excellent points. Listen to him.
Also buy the pack structure video on the main site, it will answer many of your questions.

Don't go to a trainer that uses compulsion with this dog.
Learn Ed's techniques and use them...there are lots of videos available to buy, and they are worth every penny.

Kelly, For me it was the pulling on the walk, and some commands I use in OB training that the prong collar gave me much help, If I remember correctly, Mr. Frawley said about the prong collar it is like power steering for dogs. Now Kelly, the biting for me was not a big deal, since I was and still training for the sport of schutzhund, But one thing I remember I used on my other dogs, since they wanted to bite, I really gave them the fist or the body part they wanted to bite down they throat. gave them that gag feelings. Now I believe no one thing is going to do the job, a combination of obedience training, sit, down, here, etc. will cut out some of your situations. I am no dog trainer, Just my thought. Dan

He pulls in front of me on the walks. Is the Establishing Pack Structure video geared towards puppies?