*sigh*

This is why I'll probably never go to another breeder.
I like the one I have.

Your one of the lucky ones, Alyssa. Many of us have had good luck & also been burned, more then once, by less 'admirable' breeders. There are far more lousey breeders then there are good ones out there.

If it is true that there are more lousy breeders than good, it is also true that breeders are like politicians, in that puppy buyers, like the electorate with politicians, end up with the breeders they deserve.

My own experience has been that it is possible to get a heck of a lot of dog for a couple thousand dollars from a breeder that knows his/her dogs, knows dog training and has serious titles, and can provide some pretty good guidance, and some pretty good early imprinting, socialization, thorough and sensible genetic testing, etc.

I have heard breeders of top working dogs comment that it is hard to find qualified homes for pups.

With respect to the pups available, it is clear that it is more likely than not that the limiting factor in training will be the handler, not the pup.

My wife is in horses, and $ is a clear obstacle to top breeding picks in horses, unlike dogs.

The equine equivalent of a $2000 malinois or gsd is a $15-50,000 warmblood or quarterhorse, I suppose.

I've seen issues arise about return of puppies for temperament or health issues, and more often than not the issues are grey. Puppy buyers end up disatisfied, breeders retreat, either reasonably, or due to resource limitations of money, time, patience.

Personally I don't have much to complain about.

In this case it seems unreasonable to expect much from a low volume breeder. They come and they go. It's tough. Doesn't always work out. People run out of money or space. They get 11 pups when they expected six. Buyers back out. Pups are cheaper than at the establishment breeders, and risks may be higher. that's usually the deal.

AM

I think the most important thing is to get a written contract to cover health issues.

Andrew, I was not referering to handler errors or handler limitations in training ability. I was refering to the actual puppy & its nerves & temperment from the begining. And paying the high end of pricing for the pups. There is a great deal of breeder-blindness out there when it comes to pups. It serves no purpose to start naming names, here. It is very difficult to get a really nice dog from a good breeder. It is far easier to get a crappy one from a so-called good breeder, even with the research one takes on finding a good breeder.

I am also well aware of the horse world,(I have ridden since I was 6 1/2 ) & have a warmblood/TBX, X-country horse (now retired) that I own & have trained & competed with since he was turning 5.

Believe me, horse brokers/breeders leave a great deal to be desired just as much as dealing with the dog breeders/brokers.

John,
If your intent isn't to imbrue the breeders reputation, why post the her name at all, particularly on a widely read open forum?
Couldn't you have just related your sad tale of your dog without naming names?

I suggest your assertion that you have, or that you had, no intention of trashing the breeder with your post is disinginous at best, especially when listed in the 'Con artists and Crooked Kennels' section.
And in my mind, casts doubt on this storyline altogether.

No, I do not know this breeder. No, I have never heard of this breeder. No, I don't know anyone that knows this breeder (that I know of). No, I've have never had any contact of any sort with this breeder.
So that puts you on equal footing as her as far as I'm concerned John.

Buyer/s beware......Of whatever it is you're buying.

On the bye John,
Did you get permission from Ed on your post?

 Quote: randy allen

John,

No, I do not know this breeder. No, I have never heard of this breeder. No, I don't know anyone that knows this breeder (that I know of). No, I've have never had any contact of any sort with this breeder.

I don't have much to add to this discussion, but Angelique Cadogan is a forum member (unless there are more than one Angelique Cadogan in Las Vegas...). She's not been a regular poster lately, but I remember her as a fairly level headed individual with a lot of respect for and knowledge about dogs - there are even other's here who have dealt with her as a breeder, with nothing but compliments for her and her dogs/puppies.

I'm sorry to hear about the OP's dog, and the whole situation sounds very unfortunate, but while I have absolutely no personal experience with Angelique, I agree that resorting to posting "warnings" about Ms. Cadogan - on a forum where she is known and liked - is maybe a bit unwise.

~Natalya

 Quote:

I don't have much to add to this discussion, but Angelique Cadogan is a forum member (unless there are more than one Angelique Cadogan in Las Vegas...). She's not been a regular poster lately, but I remember her as a fairly level headed individual with a lot of respect for and knowledge about dogs - there are even other's here who have dealt with her as a breeder, with nothing but compliments for her and her dogs/puppies.

Yup, this is what I know of Angelique too. She hasn't posted in awhile, but I remember her as a regular poster of good advice not too long ago.