Just to clarify I understand some of the lingo...

first learn the/some kennel names and what their known for then look at the titles on the individuals. Once you've got a handle on this you look at the other things (to be established at a later date). Talking with people active in the breed about the kennel: is that the most efficient, accurate way to discover the what they're known for? Or am I way off here?

Thankfully, German Shepherds are one of the most well-documented breeds of dogs in existence. Owners of a GSD who is registered with a breed registry, can typically trace their dog all the way back to Horand. Pretty neat, and a fun exercise if you ever get bored.

Talking to old hands in the GSD world is immeasurably valuable at learning the history of different lines, notable dogs and kennels, etc.

Most of what I know about different kennels and dogs has come from my training director, who started breeding and competing with GSDs in the 60s. If you come across an old hand like that, pick their brains clean! We cannot afford to let that valuable knowledge die with that generation of enthusiasts.

Always be aware that individuals have biases that may or may not be related to the dogs themselves, but rather to the very intricate politics of dog-land, especially when it comes to GSDs.

Its complicated as hell, and can give you a massive headache, but the best indicator of whether a dog is showline or workingline is the philosophy of the kennel that produced them, along with the philosophies of the kennels that produced the sire and dam.

If the pedigree is full of V and VA's you can pretty much guarantee a show line breeding. You start to recognize certain kennel names and certain dogs.

Black and Red is a pretty good give away.

You just keep asking questions and pretty soon it starts to fall into place for you!

 Quote: Betty Waldron

Black and Red is a pretty good give away.
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Again sorry for the questions, not sure what you mean by black and red.

Black and red dogs normally are from show lines.

And thank you Aaron! I'm going to have to perculate some of this info for awhile before I keep asking and having to reword some terms.

I know at club they can recite all kinds of things, and ironically almost all GSD's.

I agree with Aaron. Pick someone's brains...

Another way to learn is to find some nice working line dogs and research their pedigree on the data base. You'll see certain kennels and dogs show up.

Look at who is competing at a national level in ring sport or schutzhund. Research their dogs. Who do they use?

Same thing with the showlines.

The database is very helpful.

 Quote: aimee pochron

 Quote: betty waldron

Black and Red is a pretty good give away.
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Again sorry for the questions, not sure what you mean by black and red.

Never say sorry for asking! If I hadn't wanted a question I would never of responded on the thread!

Some time ago the judges started really awarding the rich pigment in the show ring and breeders started breeding for the "red" tint in the tan part of black and tan. You normally only see the black and red in the show lines.

We are starting to see something similar in the DDR lines being marketed to the pet market. More then one breeders advertising in based on the "dark sable".

No one loves a dark sable more then I. But when I am planning a breeding the possibility of dark sables would be a plus, not something I would pick the male on.

 Quote: aaron myracle

Its not a sure thing, as we've beaten the "pet from working litter" concept to death... but its another clue.

I take it the Wienerau in the other thread got your attention?
Chase that dog in Falcon's pedigree a bit. All of the sudden, you'll find working lines.

Hell, we had a guy in our club who bought a German Shepherd puppy from a BYB. Turns out, the dog had a pedigree that could put many of the high-dollar working line dogs in our club to shame.

Thanks Aaron. Explain what you mean by "we've beaten the pet from a working line to death" please, I'm not sure what you meant... that there are no "pet" quality pups in working line dogs - only working level dogs or vise versa? (or neither...)

To be honest, I had not caught the Weinerau line in the other thread, or in Falcon's line. That was why I started the thread - to try and figure out what to look for and why, etc... If I understand you, I would click on the Weinerau dog, continue doing so until that dog's line changed to another kennel line? (I know this must sound so stupid - compared to the knowledge you guys have... :blush I wish we could sit down side by side and you show me this stuff; I learn far better that way!

Betty, Thanks - the V and VA are a simple, easy thing to look for. I had forgotten that indicated the show line dogs.