He needs something to do! Not to get way off track here, but yes, I'd dice up some beef heart small and cook it and set it aside for rewards. Train, play, heel around inside, anything! JMO.

That is a lot of rice to meat, so be really careful with going suddenly in the direction of extra meat and sudden diarrhea. That is, I would take the meat from his normal daily ration to use for the rewards for now.

Please add thyroid question to the list. Hypo or hyper thyroid issues? Is it controlled now? How? (Thyroid problems can be a cause of itching skin, you know, so what was the time line?)


I guess in order to stay focused and not get overwhelmed, I'd concentrate on the calcium problem (crucial), getting approval to incorporate variety (can you get rabbit, if the owner refuses chicken trial?), giving him physical and mental exercise .... saving up eggshells ....

How much fish oil did you give? You can work up to about 3 to 4 grams (3 to 4 mL) a day for his 17 k weight. But you have to give Vitamin E too. If you buy it in International Units (IL) there, he could have about 100 to 200 IL. D-alpha is better than dl-alpha.

If it's some other unit of measure there, we can figure it out.

What is "salmon soup mass", by the way? I didn't see it mentioned again in the grams of rice and beef.

It just struck me that maybe it's actual cooked salmon? At first I wrote it off as some kind of watery fish stock.

Thank you for staying with me here!

I don´t know what was the thyroid exactly but he had some issues, the people he was with took him to a vet and he got some hormones (I came to know about it when we met for a stacking training and the hairless dog had grown hair on his back). The hair thing was in July and he wasn´t taking any meds at this time anymore so he is off these for months and the hair has fallen off again.

I gave just a little of the salmon oil. Just half of teaspoon. He didn´t seem to have a bad reaction or anything so I plan to add a bit more today.

I don´t have a better translation for the salmon soup mass so I did a direct translation from estonian :P It is all the stuff you make the soup from- head, bones, some meat stuck to all this stuff. Boiled and either bones picked out or run through a grinder and added to the rice. I have no idea how much he got but I remember the owner talking to me about how good his skin had gotten on this. Then I didn´t need to know all this so I didn´t really ask.

We tried charging the mark today. I don´t know if he got it but I tried my best to make myself interesting and the treat run and make a party of it. We leave to Germany in 1,5 weeks and our group ring performance could really use some work- he is really easy to show in the breed ring but with all the music and applauding and talking from the speakers make him all wiggly and he tries to go to the other dogs and is a pain to stack. I don´t know how we have managed to place in group both times we have been there with the performance we have given... The owner recomended we use valerian tablets to get him calmer but I remembered about them after the show was over :P

That's sort of what I figured (about the salmon-soup mass) .... pretty low-nutrient but innocuous and at least a tiny bit of protein variety.

BUT now you say that he is getting bones. That's what I've been asking all this time: where is he getting calcium?

So ... see if you can get the actual makeup of the diet. You will soon have to make it anyway, right? You can't have a lifetime supply .... Then we can actually assess the calcium issue, with those fish bones included.

He needs to have the thyroid re-checked and managed, I'd say. He might have been on Synthroid?

I would way rather give this poor dog some training and exercise outlet than valerian root for his energy oversupply, wouldn't you? True, it's herbal, but if he's filled with frustrated energy and untrained, drugging him even with herbs seems like a bad fix.



PS
"Charging the mark" is just "mark, reward ..... mark, reward ..... mark, reward" until he makes the connection (looks for reward when you mark). Sounds like you may be skipping over that foundation step a little.

I don´t plan on giving him the valerian. I was thinking about using it in show ring at first for the show and the owner wanted me to but I don´t really want to give dogs stuff they don´t need. Besides, I don´t think we look that bad without it though the picture doesn´t show him in his best (on group place) I see no reason to use something like this in home environment and it isn´t a substitute for ring training either. We just came from the beach where he got at least some exercise even when on leash (a long one).

We did do charhing the mark this way because mark-reward just wasn´t interesting enough for him and he checked out. I don´t have the option to try different rewards at the moment so I did what I could- he was attentive of me-I marked and made a party of it by letting him move to get his reward and being animated myself. Then I stopped and when he stayed with me- mark and party again. This way he stayed with me. It is not perfect but gotta take what I get

Back to the original topic

He is not getting the fish thing right now. He did when the owner lost his beef supplier but then he figured he can substitute the beef muscle meat and salmon with heart so he did. At the moment his diet has been boiled rice and beef heart. That´s it.

I got in touch with the owner and when I asked him where is the dog getting his calcium, minerals and vitamins, he has a pause to think about it... Berger can have beef and turkey. He can´t have pork, chicken gives him a rash and things made with flour (he didn´t know what kind exactly but bread and pasta and things like this) make him itch all over.

Well, at least he WAS getting calcium. Calcium is the issue here, so "vitamins and minerals" (as a group) may just cloud the real question. (Please don't let the owner think that some kind of multi-vit/min pill is what's needed; it's not.)

Beef heart and rice (alone) is way out of whack, and the calcium that went away when the bones went away is the overriding issue.


"He figured he can substitute the beef muscle meat and salmon with heart" .... but he lost the bones. This is what needs immediate fixing. I think I already mentioned how this would be gradual in this case, with the dog consuming a poop-binder (the rice) and adding another one (the crucial calcium).

He doesn't need any kind of flour, so that's OK. Rewards can be made of any of the proteins in his diet.

All JMO, of course.

The owner didn´t think about his diet in the way "is he getting all the nutrients." He was just thinking how to give him something to eat and sounds rather proud that his dog is eating pure beef. From this perspective losing the bones meant nothing.

I got some turkey parts (I asked every kind with bone) that are thawing and I hope there are some that have bones he is able to consume or I can make small enough for him. I checked- he has a total of 4 molars (how was I under the impression he has most of these???), 11 incisors and 2 premolars. Luckily the 4 molars are placed so they give him at least something to chew with but I don´t know if it is enough... But we are going to try. And I will start to make cake so I can get some eggshells. Don´t you just love when live hands you a totally legit reason to eat cake

I am confident that if I make the switch and explain the whys and whats the owner will keep it up. He truly loves his dog but he just doesn´t know better. I have this book and I will let him read it (I think it is fair to assume that if he works in the UK then he can understand english). I believe it will explain things way better than I can.

That is a very good book.

But if he has missing teeth, then turkey parts might be a problem. Do you have a grinder? What parts did you get? Wings and drumsticks, backs, or what? I think that a couple of raw feeders here regularly feed turkey and might have suggestions for whacking parts for a dentally-challenged dog. (I don't; I have mixed sizes of dogs and don't get much bigger than chicken backs and quarters.) I know that you will want to remain present while he tries his RMB skills.

I would not thaw more than you think you will use over a couple of days.

This is a good start, though.

The best way to do this, I think, is to supplement the heart with the ground/crushed eggshells (by the approximate weight of the heart) and not the turkey parts, of course, which already have their calcium. So don't combine them until you have an approximate weight on the heart portion. One teaspoon of ground eggshell is about the correct calcium addition per pound of boneless muscle meat. (Again, the bone-in turkey meat does not need calcium added, and there's no benefit to adding calcium in more than the ratio needed.)

I would watch the poops as I slowly (over a few days) changed the diet.

Personally, I'd dump the rice. But that too I would do gradually as I increased the calcium.

It will be good to incorporate a little produce, some live-culture plain yogurt, and keep up on the fish oil and E.

But this calcium problem is a very good thing to be dealing with.

Don't forget that you want to get that thyroid checkup.


PS

What kind of cake is this going to be? I can have my cake vicariously. LOL

If you are able to order from the US I can direct you to couple websites of people who make good dog clothes. Let me know. We have American Hairless Terriers so I do understand the clothing issues LOL!