Quote: meredith hamilton

Bob, do you need an apprentice? I would like to be she.

You would be lucky indeed.

MUCH (or MOST)* of my own retrieve success (which is all really in the last few years) is directly attributable to Old Earth Dog Bob Scott.

I now usually backchain the command, I pay a lot of attention to "circle of influence" (starting indoors, in fact), I quit while the dog still wants more ....

This is how much Bob's retrieve-training hints have influenced me: I have trained Pugs to fetch. (In case you don't all know this, Pugs do not have a natural retrieve. They DO have awesome food drive. )


*Or ALL

 Quote: bob scott

Very nice!
A natural retrieve is at the top of my puppy selection process. It shows a willingness to work with you as a partner.
May I suggest that, for a puppy, you don't throw it so far.
Yes, he has the idea but the distance gives him to many chances for distraction aka the first toss.
I like to work a puppy in what's called your area of influence. To far and you start to loose value and other things gain in value.
When he picks up the toy then you run backwards with exciting praise. That will build speed on the return. If the excitement causes him to drop it just mellow a bit. Some dogs just can't handle the excitement of to much praise.
One more thing you may know. Quit on a high note. Especially with a pup.
To many have that "He's doing great, I'll toss it one more time" training mentality. The best pup in the world will get bored fast with to much repetition. You don't want to end on that.

And the famous Bob-ism: "The retrieve is not taught by throwing the item and hoping for the best."

 Quote: bob scott

I like to work a puppy in what's called your area of influence. To far and you start to loose value and other things gain in value.

I agree with everything Bob said. The above quote is the main thing I'd change in working the pup in the video.

Also, I like to choose puppies with a natural retrieve as well, but I've worked with several who didn't "have it" at 8 weeks of age and I worked with them to develop it.

Regardless of their initial desire to retrieve, when I'm working with a pup on this, I focus initially on their desire to play with (tug with) the toy. Short play sessions with some baby-level frustration work can accomplish this. If the toy is very high value to them, minor distractions won't creep into the picture.

Then, I work on the speed of the send out and the speed of the return. A dog naturally motivated to retrieve usually brings this to the table themselves, but to improve/increase speed, I'll hold a pup by the collar or leash (close to the collar) with one hand, and tease them with the toy in the other hand. Then I'll toss the toy a very short distance. If I was successful in step 1 of the process of bringing out their desire for the toy, the pup will pull against the collar in an attempt to get to the toy. When they do this, I will hold them for a brief moment and then release them to get the toy.

I'll graduate from that to the point where I'm creating frustration to get the toy by holding their collar for longer periods of time and releasing them when their frustration heightens, which in turn builds the drive to get the toy, which also builds speed.

Then I do what Bob describes, running backwards a bit after they pick up the toy and are on their way back to me to increase the speed of the return. I'll also play tug with them with the toy as soon as they bring it back to me. If they love playing tug with you, they'll soon learn that the faster they get the toy back to you, the faster they will be able to play tug with you.

Thanks Konnie. He does love to play tug. He really likes those 2 balls I used. But what he loves the most is his cuz toy. It used to be on a string and we played tug with it, but he was using only his front teeth too much. Then I was using it as the item to retrieve in the back yard. As much as he loves tug... I think at this point, food wins out - if he has a choice. And anytime I call him to come to me, that means food. Any idea on how to not get him to drop the item when he's about a foot away?

Is he familiar with markers? If so, what about marking when he is "14 inches" away from you and rewarding for being that close and having the item still in his mouth? You can then extend that to only marking when he brings it all the way...

ETA... with Bob and Konnie advising on this thread, it is REALLY intimidating to offer ANY advice!!

 Quote: phaedra rieff

ETA - I just can't believe he was this little dude, just 5 weeks ago!

Puppies are related to weeds

 Quote: phaedra rieff

... Any idea on how to not get him to drop the item when he's about a foot away?

The "give" into my hand is one of the links in the chain when you back-chain (or just chain, for that matter) a command.

If it's just fetch (not competition), then the release into my hand is the last link. (In competition, there would still remain the finish.)

That last link is first because of the built-up history of rewards .... that is, that last link, the dog will learn, can only arrive by going through the other links. And that last link, because I taught it first, has a strong (practiced history) association with it of reward.

Also, besides the reward history, the progress is from least-learned least-rewarded to MOST learned and MOST rewarded. Good motivator!

So indoors, even, that release into my hand (or wherever I want it) is usually my first link to make solid.

I know that there are plenty of times when the first real link taught would be the hold, because if that's not in place, then how can you teach the release of the item.

But that was obviously not the case here.

All JMO, and all based on simple "fetch" type retrieves.

Barbra, I can advise all day long. Doesn't mean I can apply it.
Listen to everyone then decide what works for YOU and YOUR dog.

Adding to Konnie's comment on tug work,
I much prefer the tug to just rewarding with a ball, etc.
Of course you use what has value to the dog but nothing, IMHO, beats tug work.
It's the GAME (dog/handler interaction)that is rewarding to the dog.
Just give a reward and you no longer are of value to some possessive dogs. I want that reward to include me in it and not just as a dispenser.

To follow up on Connie, even with a dog that loves to retrieve, the back chaining (teaching to hold/out) should be done first for solid behaviour.
The pup in the video picked it up then dropped it. NOT a problem now for the natural retriever but if continued it can become a bad habit or even a default when the dog gets tired.
The have to KNOW that each and every link in the chain can be (randomly)rewarded. Not just the retrieve itself!