Lisa there is no argument, we are just discussing the pros and cons of Off leash socialization vs. the On leash approach. I agree that being leashed can cause frustration the con; but it gives you control of your Pup the Pro.

Off leash the puppy has no chance if the situation becomes violent, unheard growls not heeded or unpredictiable situation do happen often with dogs. I'm just thinking you don't want to skip any steps here.

No argument, it just I find it hard to find dogs that want to get along with other dogs outside there pack? Maybe its the type dogs we have in our different area. Puppies and Dogs running loose off leash that don't really know each other scares me.

Maybe when I think dogs I'm not thinking Labs and Goldens and such, now that might be ok. The Labs on leash then eventually off might work.
But imagine if you will a Rottie, even a Rottie Pup, might want to play rough.

I see what you're saying, though just because a pup is aggressive on leash does not mean she will be off leash. Often, it's the being on leash that really triggers the behavior because she doesn't have an escape route.

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The Labs on leash then eventually off might work.
But imagine if you will a Rottie, even a Rottie Pup, might want to play rough.

LOL, how many Labs do you know? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Lisa unfortunately most the Labs I know are well trained, really loved and super well discipline yuck (sticky like syrup). These people that own them love the heck out of them and they are robust, well kept and active dogs, just like their mystical folklore dictate.

There is a yellow one that acts sorta crazy but he's chained in the front yard dirty and rarely messed with.

So yeah Labs are great dogs, that seems to be staying the same even after being #1 in the USA for 3-5 yrs now.

Accidentally they might hurt a puppy, if he gets in the way of their ball running or jumping over him.

Ugh, my internet has been down the past few days and will be for another week or so, so I haven't been able to get online.

Anyway, the newfie is great with Djenga. Djenga will run up and jump all over her and lick her face and everything, and annabel just ignores her or sorta moves so she can't reach her face. Djenga loves Annabel, they get along great. It's not just big black dogs, it's all dogs, even little ones. She saw a little jack russell mix the other night walking on the other side of the street, and she started barking at it for no reason, not a fearful reaction like before but actually agressive (although I think if he came over she would have backed down and gotten really scared, but she's still so young)...I corrected the sh*t out of her for that, and after 3 strong leash corrections (on a flat collar) she settled down and went potty, which was what we were out there for.

I am going to ask about the lab this weekend. I won't make them meet, but I'll have the lab far away and her with me, and then I'll see if I can get her to eat some treats or play with her ball or something.

The only bad experience I can think of was the same day we were at the mall, she saw her reflection and started barking at it. She's seen mirrors before, all the time actually, but this time she flipped...maybe that was why she's so worried, because she scared herself, but I think it was more than that since she was intimidated by Annabel at the beginning. Maybe the mirror incident made it worse, but oh well, at least I noticed it now so I can start working on it. I also have the phone numbers for a couple of places where I might be able to take her for obedience classes, just to get her out, around other dogs.

Thanks for all the advice, if I can I'll keep everyone posted on how things go.