I don't want strange men approaching me at night and I don't want my dog to allow them to, I do want my dog to sit quitely if I give her the command to do so. If someone wants to chat I tell them that she will bite if they come to close.

If someone approaches me from behind I step aside and let them pass.

My dog gets paid to watch after me and mind me! It's her job.

Debbie

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Being frightened of common daily (or nightly) things, is not a very happy situation for the dog. Just talk to anyone who has ever suffered a phobia, it ain't pleasant.

I just want to add that while I agree that if a dog is always frightened or has such a high anxiety level that there is more fear and worry than there are happy moments, one should question the quality of that dog's life and should take it upon themselves to correct that, if at all possible. That cannot be a happy existence.

However, fear is a normal self preservation mechanism possessed by all mammals as far as I know, and expecting a dog to never feel fear (especially when it's probably warranted, such as when a male stranger is "sneaking up from behind") is a bit unrealistic. I certainly don't expect that of myself, and unlike my dog, I possess higher reasoning capabilities (or so I like to think). While my dog is probably reacting out of fear to the situations I've described, it certainly does not define the entirety of his existence, or even a majority of it. He's a very happy and relaxed fellow most of the time. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I agree with Lisa and Debbie. I do not want men approaching me while I walk my dog at night. So, I don't mind if Tyr lets them know to stay back. Tyr begins to growl (so deep and loud that I find the hairs on my arms standing up). If the person gets closer than 10-15 feet he will bare his teeth and bark. I ALWAYS tell men NOT TO APPROACH when my husband is not walking with us. Tyr is much more protective of me than of my husband, and he seems to increase the protectiveness after dark. Which is fine with me.

I don't want Tyr to take food from strangers, but I have set up treat situations to get him to understand that not all folks are bad. It does work well, at least for us. However, I do this only when my husband is along. I don't correct him unless he keeps up the incessant barking and growling.

I have also noticed that with the start of my period each month Tyr becomes soooooo protective that I can not take him in public alone or have men in the house (even with my husband there). He becomes verrrry unreasonable and will stand in front of me, legs spread, guard hairs erect and guard me for no reason what so ever (even with men he knows well). Our trainer said this was normal for unneutered males, but Tyr is neutered. You may notice this difference in your dog as well. Evidently, it is a common behavior.

I would say that your dog is adapting his behavior to what he believes is necessary for night activities. It may also be that if you are the least bit worried about walking at dark, the dog may sense it (even if you aren't aware you feel this way) and provide more protection so that you feel more secure. The fact that he does it when your husband isn't around makes me wonder if that isn't the case.

Anyway, just walking with the shepherd keeps you safer, even if he didn't attempt to be aggressive.

It's good to have a dog that can help you if things get suspicious. Having a dog that can put the hurt on a person MIGHT be of some use as well, but I'm sure all would agree that it should be the owner who decides on THAT issue! Letting the dog take charge is asking for trouble. If the dog is fearful, then you have perhaps the most dangerous sort of situation possible.
The chances that a person would attempt to mug you as you walk a protection breed of dog is fairly remote, but the chances that a fearful dog is going to injure the 'wrong guy' is, by contrast, quite possible. By exposing people to a fear biter, then you are essentially allowing the public to serve as your personal guinea pigs as you hope/pray that the dog doesn't decide to add a few more holes to their anatomy. The mugger will likely only take your purse, but the injured public will try to take your life's savings. I wonder what the stats are on 'people who have been mugged while walking their doberman/GSD'?
Getting the dogs described in the previous posts to growl/bite a person does not sound like much of a challenge, this is why I would start building confidence by teaching these dogs not to fear strangers...this helps keep the dog from puncturing friendly people...and then, if you must, you can add some controlled threat displays or biting. None of these dogs sound like they are having trouble with being too friendly, so I wouldn't worry about turning them into golden retrievers. Even if you did get your dogs to be reliable around strangers, they would very likely turn right back into biting deamons under the dramatic circumstances that occur during an assault.
It is, by the way, legal for a man to walk from behind a person and pass them on the sidewalk....letting a big dog threaten and snap at a passerby is like pointing a gun at them and saying "stay back"....it just doesn't seem fair or pleasant for an innocent pedestrian to have to experience!
When I was a naive 20 year old, I had an untrained doberman with similar "protective" tendencies. These days, I wince with embarrasment when I think of the BS that innocent people had to tolerate as I walked this dog. Even with a muzzle, this dog would give a person a heart attack!

Kelton - I do think this reaction is protection, we both don't know because we were not there, but the dogs reactions seem to be all pro-active, or forward aggressive actions, not backing up or hinding behind her or all the time, and only at night. The dog seem to be reacting to strange men at night. Which is normal for this type dog.

Lisa - You seem to have vast experience in the pleasant and unpleasant things. I'm sorry to have heard that. The hardship and anugish that does not kill us makes us stronger. This is the source of your strength and wisdom. That sounds like one tough Lab.

Debbie - Excellent control, I wish mines and everybodies dog was that in control. That is the optimum results, watchful but in control. Waiting for your command.

Linda - Tyr seem to be a nice dog, no protection training and still in control, and tough, a natural protector. And as mentioned this is a common reaction when a strange person approaches his female owner and the dog has the balls to fend off a attack.

Dee Dee - What is the best way once this is all under control to go about training and what all is invovled in training bite work-is it safe to train this on your own or should I find a trainer?

Training the "Its Ok" is an alert command that says for now I got it but be on alert. I learnt it as a part of bite work training. It can be trained on its on just to stop a dog from acting aggressive.

Whats involved in bite training is Prey drive work, Defense drive (which is what Lobo may be displaying) and Fight drive work. Each have been defined and explained here on this board. There are several ways to enhance and train each.

This is my opinion, Is it safe to train, "No", accidents can happen. Just like any form of defense or fighting. Having a pro trainer helps provent it happening to you.

Yes a trainer would be the easiest way to do it, and in the shortest amount of time. It's taken me 3yrs to do what a good trainer could do in 9 months. Trail and error the plus side and my next dog will be better, hopefully if it has the right stuff.

What you should be thankfull for is that it seems that your dog may have the right temperment to be trained, some dogs don't they will run behind you, if approached on leash unless trapped in a corner.
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Yes I am very lucky with Lobo, he is very smart and easily trainable,and sometimes I know I am not using him to his fullest potential. I am also very thankful that is not fear agression-do you think the fact that he is not neutered has any bearings? He does have a good temperment, forgets his size now and again but I trust him fully once a person has been accepted into the house. This night aggression though makes me leary of company just barging in though, but we will work on it, and I know like every other obstical we have faced, we will get through it.

Thank you all for your advise and if you think of anything else, I will be here.

Kelton - It is, by the way, legal for a man to walk from behind a person and pass them on the sidewalk....letting a big dog threaten and snap at a passerby is like pointing a gun at them and saying "stay back"....it just doesn't seem fair or pleasant for an innocent pedestrian to have to experience!
When I was a naive 20 year old, I had an untrained doberman with similar "protective" tendencies. These days, I wince with embarrasment when I think of the BS that innocent people had to tolerate as I walked this dog.


Don - I agree with everything you said, a person that trains a protection dog without building control is a threat to the public. And a piss poor trainer.

What we are talking about is building control without giving up the right to walk around the block. We have rights just like the mugger. Odds are that a man of good sense won't try to approach a woman with a protection bred dog, but there are some that will try to feel the dog out,
I call these guys, Crock hunters they want to pet the dog, I say hell no you can't pet him and their hands still coming in until the dog, tells them "Didn't you hear what he said" !!!! Bark, Bark. Then theres are some like the junkie that will still try to mug or snacht her purse with the dog present. These muggers/not the CH, once given a warn deserve what they get, weather its scare shi&less or bitten. The world is not a bed of roses, but I still want to walk around block or in the park. Its my world too.

If you know your dog does not have any control keep it at home until you get it trained right. That dobermann does sound scary. Who trained it?

Don writes: What we are talking about is building control without giving up the right to walk around the block. We have rights just like the mugger.

If you have control of your dog, then sure, you have a perfect right to walk around the block. If you don't have control (which is REALLY what we are talking about), then no...it could easily be argued that you do not have a right to endanger the public. You are far more likely, as I said, to injure an innocent person with a uncontrolled dog than you are to be a victim of a mugging. This, in fact, makes YOU the attacker if you dog does such a thing. So someone who mugs people or someone who lets a big, uncontrolled dog out on the sidewalk...well, I'll let you decide which is worse... the fact is that both are 'not good'....and neither have a 'right' to walk the sidewalks.

Don writes: The world is not a bed of roses, but I still want to walk around block or in the park. Its my world too.

You certainly can walk around the block, but if you bring a dog that isn't under your full control under a wide variety of circumstances...then it will be between you and the innocent person (and you will have no legal ground at all).

That dobermann does sound scary. Who trained it?

Scroll back...the dog was fully "untrained"...my youthful stupidity. Which led me to take a deliberate interest in this very topic.