Quote: sharon empson

Cody has been off all meds for about 4-5 days and is doing fine.
. . . .

I just got off the phone with specialist and they are firm on wanting cody on prepackaged diet for dogs with intestinal disorders.

I don't understand how an unmedicated dog with no symptoms who is "doing fine" is given the bullshit diagnosis of "intestinal disorders." If this were my vet he'd have some very specific questions to answer:

1. What, specifically, is Cody's medical diagnosis. Write it down--the medical name of the condition--and what tests, symptoms or physical presentation indicate this condition?

2. Based on #1, what, specifically, is a diet change going to address?

3. What, specifically, are the dietary changes you are recommending and why? What are the ingredients he needs and should avoid in a new diet and why?

If the vet can't answer these questions, then he's just making up stories to get rid of you because he doesn't think you know better. You do.

Cody is eating chicken today and having no symptoms. Why then would he need a novel protein? What makes your vet think that Cody is allergic to or intollerant of chicken----and if he were, why would the vet then recommend a kibble MADE OUT OF CHICKEN MEAL?

 Quote: tracy collins

I don't understand how an unmedicated dog with no symptoms who is "doing fine" is given the bullshit diagnosis of "intestinal disorders." If this were my vet he'd have some very specific questions to answer:

1. What, specifically, is Cody's medical diagnosis. Write it down--the medical name of the condition--and what tests, symptoms or physical presentation indicate this condition?

2. Based on #1, what, specifically, is a diet change going to address?

3. What, specifically, are the dietary changes you are recommending and why? What are the ingredients he needs and should avoid in a new diet and why?

If the vet can't answer these questions, then he's just making up stories to get rid of you because he doesn't think you know better. You do.

Royal Canin Veterinary Diet Canine Intestinal is in NO WAY either limited OR novel (it's not novel to 99.99 dogs out of a hundred; "novel" is individual, but what dog has never tasted CHICKEN?)

" Limit the ingredients-new protein .... They recommend Royal Canin. "

RC Veterinary Diet Canine Intestinal does neither, by any stretch of the imagination. And as pointed out, it's rife with common allergens.

This is your money, your wallet. You are paying for this! If you cannot get answers that make sense to you, then your money is going into a black hole, IMO.

Based on everything you've posted about this "intestinal problem," MHO is that you are being strung along and handed a big steaming pile of bulls**t, topped off with an indefinite financial commitment to crap-in-a-bag.

Straight answers would be the only thing that could even begin to change my mind about this. Sure, they can be wrong or misguided or in over their heads -- but as it stands right now, you can't even assess the advice because it's not explained.

I would call and make an appointment (even a phone appointment) with the vet ... NOT a receptionist-asks-vet-and-calls-you-back deal. I'd have a pen in hand and I would ask all the questions Tracy mentioned. And I would not hang up with double-talk rattling around in my brain; each question would have a black & white answer (whether I agreed or not).

JMO!

Wow! Addiction foods has quite a menu! thanks for the link.

I think I am going to have to change my vet. I knew it would have to happen sooner or later, because I do not want to have to defend myself everytime I go in there. Next week Cody goes back in and I probably should make an appointment with him to talk about all this and let him know what I plan to do. So, I am again gathering facts on some of the food he has suggested so I can show him why I do not like what he has suggested.

Thanks for the help. sharon

Sharon, I have nothing to add to this post (you've got the best advising you) but just want to say you have every reason to be frustrated and a bit ticked off, imho. What a frustrating situation to be in! Trust your gut, and Aaron, Tracy and Connie...

my exasperation exactly! That is what I asked. when pressed with a question, they hedge or go back to their memorized message. I agree with Connie I have to get this settled once and for all. I do not want to have to go through this each time Cody goes to the vet. I agree, I want my money spent on real food, not processed food, not on food that is mixed with a bunch of other things, and preservatives.
It's amazing to me that they do not get the difference that fresh is best. I even gave them examples about their own diets. But they are set on one thing.
So, we will get this settled soon. In good conscience I can not feed my animals and Cody especially anything that I do not believe in.

I was flabergasted to learn that I would need a prescription for this food! Amazing!

Sharon

 Quote: sharon empson

my exasperation exactly! That is what I asked. when pressed with a question, they hedge or go back to their memorized message. I agree with Connie I have to get this settled once and for all. I do not want to have to go through this each time Cody goes to the vet. I agree, I want my money spent on real food, not processed food, not on food that is mixed with a bunch of other things, and preservatives.
It's amazing to me that they do not get the difference that fresh is best. I even gave them examples about their own diets. But they are set on one thing.
So, we will get this settled soon. In good conscience I can not feed my animals and Cody especially anything that I do not believe in.

I was flabergasted to learn that I would need a prescription for this food! Amazing!

Sharon

Many vets don't endorse raw. My big problem with these vets is the lack of information and explanation.

I have a wonderful vet, and I know many wonderful vets. It really saddens me when people like this come along to besmirch the whole profession.

I would bet big money on this: Ask the vet who "recommends RC" which of those top 5 ingredients he likes so much.

You will find out just how much he knows about the food when he has no idea what those top 5 ingredients are.

Ask what he thinks about the Purdue Bloat Study's recommendations against chicken fat being in the top 5 ingredients.

Ask what he thinks about a food that has more flavoring agents than it has egg -- in fact, that has "flavoring" in 5th position!

I'd be interested in his opinion on the artificial sweetener(!) and on the several forms of sodium, topped by potassium chloride (a cheap substitute for salt, as if salt wasn't cheap enough).

I wonder how he feels about grain fractions (in this case, brewers' by-products for which there's no commercial value so it's used as filler in crap dog food).

The fact that it uses artificial Vitamin E (dl-alpha) is minor compared to the rest of the crapola in that ingredient list.

It's one thing to recommend against a raw diet. It's completely different to push a food that they just happen to sell by lying about it (limited ingredient, novel protein). Or maybe they are not lying -- just completely ignorant. Hard to decide which I'd prefer.


I don't feel that I'm overreacting, either. I've followed these many threads about Cody with dismay about the vagueness in explaining why certain expensive tests were needed, about the complete lack of diagnosis (as far as I can see), about asking you for his food history and then recommending a "new protein" that he has eaten a ton of (as has just about every dog in this country), and about pushing this particular food, which IMO is in the top ten for awfulness.

JMO!


PS
As already mentioned, there are top-quality commercial foods that really are limited-ingredient and exotic (so that a novel protein for the individual dog can be chosen). RC isn't one of them. It's also fairly simple to do L.I. home-cooked. However, nothing you have posted has pointed to food allergies.

Just a hodge-podge of vague and conflicting information from the vet(s), that I can see ....

Edited by Connie Sutherland (03/24/2011 09:30 PM)
Edit reason: ps

So, you were feeding raw and Cody became sick. Now he's eating cooked chicken and rice, and he is doing well. Is that right?
Why don't you just keep feeding what he is doing well on. Sounds like he does have some sensitivity to something that you were feeding.
I don't think every dog can eat a raw diet without occasional vomiting/diarrhea.
Take the info you got, and work with it.

I might be confused about this, but I think that he was on raw for a long time with no incident once the late-night snack ended the early-morning bile vomiting. I think he had only one vomiting event (besides the bile-only vomiting that cleared up by avoiding empty stomach).

But yes, Sharon, if you want to continue with the home-cooked, even though of course you can't go on indefinitely with the no-calcium chicken and rice, that's easily remedied.

Betty's suggestion way trumps RC food, IMHO, and I would be happy to provide you with info about the additions you would need to balance it.

I would still want to know, clearly and succinctly, why a L.I. diet was suggested, because no allergy symptoms were mentioned. If it's simply an attempt to identify any problem ingredient, that's easily managed.

Just throwing this out there - Missy occasionally has had a bit of vomiting bile with raw. Almost always because there was a bit of bone left in her stomach. Once the bone came up, she was fine. they weren't huge pieces either - maybe the size of a nickle.

Dogs get irritated stomachs every once and a while. If the only symptoms seen were the ones Connie mentioned -

"I might be confused about this, but I think that he was on raw for a long time with no incident once the late-night snack ended the early-morning bile vomiting. I think he had only one vomiting event (besides the bile-only vomiting that cleared up by avoiding empty stomach)"

I don't think I'd worry about it unless there are accompanying symptoms that lead you to believe that there is more going on. You've had him checked out. Things looked normal. His energy/activity is normal. I'd just slowly transition him on a complete diet - either cooked or raw - and go from there.