I have a question about proofing a dog that has already had a lot of OB training. Recently I have taken my dog back through basic OB using marker training.

When in the proofing phase, do you take a dog out and work on just one single command in all sorts of different environments, or do you work on all known commands in a session?

I'm having a tough time figuring out when corrections are neccesary, too. Shes really headstrong and will blow me off on simple stuff sometimes. From six months old to a year and a half she had a lot of basic obedience training in all sorts of environments. I'm sure she knows all this stuff.

Normally I would correct for this, but I have been working on retraining everything using markers as part of a plan to help me work through some behavioral problems that popped up.

A few people here helped me figure this out, and I have been doing my best to follow the advice with the result of the behavioral problems getting better. Thats a major score!

However, shes been blowing me off for things like "sit" a lot lately. Its really annoying to have my dog walk away from me when I tell her to sit. Especially in situations that have been part of the routine for as long as I have had her.

I don't mind being patient with her and trying to work it out motivationaly, just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing.

I saw a video of her brother online. He was obviously trained with yank and crank. The trainer justified the training by describing his temperament as being just like hers, strong and independent.

I'm really glad she doesn't duck down on a turn like her brother does, but sometimes I wonder if I am doing the right thing by not using any corrections in her training at this point.

 Quote: Bob Scott

Ditto with Randy!
There has to be some consequence for not obeying.
For some dogs that may be correction, verbal or physical depending on how sensitive the dog is.
For other dogs loss of reward can be huge.
It could also be your asking the dog for more then it's able to give at this point in training concerning distractions or time.

All the feedback was great---nicely distilled into the above summary from Bob/Randy.

After thinking about it, it could be that Brodie is sometimes more interested in roadkill (or deer, whatever) than an OB command from me due to weak engagement. I never really incorporated engagement work into my prior training. And after reviewing the ME video clips on that subject I could see how OB could be troublesome if engagement is not solid.

Back to the foundation for a while...

I'm curious, too.

If I had to guess it would probably be prey drive that goes to aggression, but thats just a guess.

Fill us in Aaron!

Edited by Bob Scott (04/20/2011 12:06 AM)
Edit reason: clicked on wrong reply box

 Quote: lauren jeffery

I have a question about proofing a dog that has already had a lot of OB training. Recently I have taken my dog back through basic OB using marker training.

When in the proofing phase, do you take a dog out and work on just one single command in all sorts of different environments, or do you work on all known commands in a session?

I'm having a tough time figuring out when corrections are neccesary, too. Shes really headstrong and will blow me off on simple stuff sometimes. From six months old to a year and a half she had a lot of basic obedience training in all sorts of environments. I'm sure she knows all this stuff.

Normally I would correct for this, but I have been working on retraining everything using markers as part of a plan to help me work through some behavioral problems that popped up.

A few people here helped me figure this out, and I have been doing my best to follow the advice with the result of the behavioral problems getting better. Thats a major score!

However, shes been blowing me off for things like "sit" a lot lately. Its really annoying to have my dog walk away from me when I tell her to sit. Especially in situations that have been part of the routine for as long as I have had her.

I don't mind being patient with her and trying to work it out motivationaly, just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing.

I saw a video of her brother online. He was obviously trained with yank and crank. The trainer justified the training by describing his temperament as being just like hers, strong and independent.

I'm really glad she doesn't duck down on a turn like her brother does, but sometimes I wonder if I am doing the right thing by not using any corrections in her training at this point.

I don't believe that dogs "blow us off" or are "being stubborn". More often then not it's a matter of confusion.
Why would a dog "blow you off if it will either get a correction or loose a reward?
It's probably confused.That could be from poor correction because of timing, or the reward doesn't hold enough value, or the timing of the correction or the reward is off.
to many today look at marker training as meaning no correction
I've taken one dog to a number of titles with no correction but that's because I wanted to see how far I could go with it.
I'll forever use marker training but NOT correcting is more about leadership and your connection with the dog, your ability and the dog's temperment and personality.
Nothing wrong with correction "IF" it's done fairly and correctly! BOTH are all about timing and understand why your doing what your doing.

 Quote: Sharon DeGaramo

Could you successfully use the high-drive dog's own (series of)self-rewards to work toward a handler's desired response? Or is this allowing a dog freedom to choose their own path...or is it working with the drive of the dog to get the desired response?

That's what marker training is.

You have to let go of the idea that there's something wrong with the dog making it's own choice.

The outcome is what matters.

 Quote: Tim Curtis

What types of behaviors are they referring to in the studies?

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/berg/anthroz/2002/00000015/00000001/art00005

http://web.sbu.edu/psychology/lavin/breland,%202000.htm

http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Breland/misbehavior.htm