They also let the dogs run together in a pack. That's why I chose this guy in my house instead. He mentioned Michael Ellis and told us to continue watching the DVD's we have. He said besides the scruffing we are off to a good start.

Trainer's youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=murphyleejason&aq=f

You mean they allow puppies to socialize with each other in a supervised puppy kindergarten. That's pretty standard for this kind of class--which is geared toward people who want well-mannered, well-socialized companion dogs who will live as family members in their house. Like mine.

It may not be appropriate for a working dog prospect. I don't know about that.

Just be clear what your realistic goals are for Gambit. Begin with the end in mind.

Yeah it's not a working dog thing at all. The end is to have him PSA and Sch but we will see. He said that my dog will be 45 pounds that that the first mal in country was only 50. He thinks once our dog gains some confidence he will make for a very quick dog.

Nick, as Connie is stressing, I'd want to know EXACTLY what methods this trainer uses and how he intends to works with Gambit.

When does he introduce corrections and what type / under what conditions (if ever) would be one thing to ask.

Does he use marker / clicker training on pups this age?

What equipment/tools does he recommend and impliment? (types of collars, etc...)

Can you observe him training another client's dog? Can you contact previous clients to get their input?

Think of this as looking for someone to babysit your little girls. You would not leave them with someone who seems nice and has a web site, without other more critical information being obtained.

He may very well be the best thing since sliced bread, but this would be a great opportunity to practice those leadership/protection skills as Gambit's owner/trainer and get more information before committing.

The videos you linked showed Schutzund work and a dog catching a frisbee but I didn't see anything on basic obedience training techniques, which is what you and Gambit need.

Nick, you should be focusing on BONDING, manners, socialization & then obedience training.

You are a VERY LONG way from worrying about training this dog in PSA or SchH or any other sport. You won't know for a very long time if this puppy is even a PROSPECT for that type of work.

If it were genetics ALONE that dictated if dogs were working prospects...there would be thousands more dogs competing that are not able to. And I am just talking about club level work...not national or international level competitions.

First things first...the puppy needs to learn to TURST you & learn basic manners & basic commands. You are getting way ahead or yourself worrying about training with some sport trainer. You need someone to just work with you with very BASIC training.

 Quote: nick logan

Yeah it's not a working dog thing at all. The end is to have him PSA and Sch but we will see. He said that my dog will be 45 pounds that that the first mal in country was only 50. He thinks once our dog gains some confidence he will make for a very quick dog.

Nick, again I might be a minority here but my dogs all did puppy class type stuff and were fine in Schutzhund, etc. Not going to make it to Nationals anytime soon but that is more due to the breed foibles than my socializing them. Forget about PSA and Schutzhund right now - think about socializing this pup and bonding with it. At the end of the day, if this dog is not socialized well I foresee it going down the road because your living conditions are decidely not set up to handle a full blown working dog that does not interact with strangers.

Not saying this trainer is bad or that the other place is good but this idea that puppy socialization classes are going to ruin a dog for sport is bunk in my opinion. This puppy needs some confidence building etc and IMO sequestering this puppy in training because he is a "working dog" is a recipe for disaster given your family environment.

If you were an experienced handler looking at competing at a national level and had successfully raised puppies in the past my answer would likely be different because I would have more confidence in the handling of the dog but you are an extremely green handler (as we all start out) and I think Tracy hit on it correctly - you need to be realistic and look at your situation. You have young children at home, are inexperienced, and have a high drive breed. No one says that you won't be able to do sport with Gambit but at this point let's get him a well socialized and behaved puppy so in the event that sport work does not pan out you have a companion that you are able to enjoy and live with.

 Quote: ingrid rosenquist

... At the end of the day, if this dog is not socialized well I foresee it going down the road because your living conditions are decidely not set up to handle a full blown working dog that does not interact with strangers. .... This puppy needs some confidence building etc and IMO sequestering this puppy in training because he is a "working dog" is a recipe for disaster given your family environment. ... No one says that you won't be able to do sport with Gambit but at this point let's get him a well socialized and behaved puppy so in the event that sport work does not pan out you have a companion that you are able to enjoy and live with.

 Quote: Anne Jones

... you should be focusing on BONDING, manners, socialization & then obedience training. .... First things first...the puppy needs to learn to TURST you & learn basic manners & basic commands. You are getting way ahead or yourself worrying about training with some sport trainer. You need someone to just work with you with very BASIC training.

In a nutshell.

You're on a roll, Nick, with walking away from something you had a bad gut feeling about.

When you read these posts, you'll get a GOOD gut feeling. Breathe. SLOW DOWN!

I was responding to Tracy's post and saying that's what I'd like in the end. Not saying that it WILL happen. Just what I do want in a dog. If it doesn't happen I'll get another dog that will. (keeping Gambit) I sorta see Gambit as a learning experience because I know we all have to start some where. Boy.. Did I chose the breed to start with! (sarcastic) I do feel with the proper guidelines from you guys and my in home trainer we will be on the right track to making him a good adult

Quote
"Just be clear what your realistic goals are for Gambit. Begin with the end in mind." .

Barbara we just talked for about two hours and he showed us how to get him to platz using markers. I stink at it right now. I thought the dog was responding to my command to platz but the trainer asked me to do it without a command. I put my hand down fast the dog follows it and then give him the food with no command. He was responding to my hands... He likes how Gambit plays tug. I really didn't know what to ask him. I just watched him work the dog and there wasn't any ruff stuff.


o Within 6 lessons, you will learn how to teach your dog basic obedience and manners using praise, positive reinforcement, and other great training methods that make it easy for your dog to understand. Lessons include loose-leash walking, come command, sit/stay, and down/stay.


NOTE:
We also are signed up for a Class with capitolcanine. That will be in July. This class with the guy I'm taking is 6 lessons. I personally don't want my dog running around with other dogs he doesn't know. I like Ed's response on the puppy video to dog's going "doggie". I want my dog to focus on me and see me as the person who provides all the fun. I'm trying to do that.

"I do feel with the proper guidelines from you guys and my in home trainer we will be on the right track to making him a good adult"

Yup! But, IMO, with some kindergarten right now. Now is when he needs it.



"We also are signed up for a Class with capitolcanine. That will be in July. "

Isn't there one sooner?



I feel pretty strongly (and I have read all of your threads; I'm not coming in on this uninformed ) that this puppy and his owner both need a puppy marker (or "clicker") kindergarten.

Yes, you are the source of all his fun and his resources, but he needs to get with other pups and their owners in a good fun atmosphere.

I personally often lean very strongly toward teaching the dog basic manners myself, using the LB videos. But in this case (and others, too!) I feel strongly that it will be very very good for both of you to get into an atmosphere of positive handling and fun, upbeat manners work ... both to learn and to un-learn.

As you yourself have said, you probably had some outmoded examples of training, and no real experience of the kind of training and bonding that you want.

As Anne said, "BONDING, manners, and socialization."

Start out with the right "flavor" in your mind.

I'll bet money that you won't regret it.

JMO! I would reverse the order of the two plans you have: puppy marker kindergarten followed later by the in-home basic ob.