Quote: Anne Jones

I thought that she was trying to 'free shape' him to the touch pads. Not luring him.

So did I.

She was free-shaping. I was suggesting luring, which I find much more direct, and quicker. Just a suggestion.

I hardly free-shape at all. Once my dog knew the touch pad, I shaped (not free-shaped) her to put both feet on the pad, then I used that to shape other behaviors using the touch pad.

I was suggesting luring too (JMO, though) ..... I posted the Ellis clip to show some of the the pros and cons of free-shaping.

" 7 inches of wet snow last night & shoveling."

Yep, had enough winter for this year. SIGH

Duane...I free shape some things...since like I said my dogs have done marker work since day one at 7 & 8 weeks old..,& they automatically offer know behaviors when they know we are going to train & then offer new stuff to me. So I lure or free shape depending on what I am looking for.

I didn't even focus on the size of the bowl. I use frisbes & even keep a couple extra ones in the truck to take to the field with me also...easier to carry then the upside down horse feeding pans. They work for my dogs.

I use plastic bucket lids. They have a different feel than any surface I use them on, so I don't have to switch to anything else later.

Sorry, after re reading what I wrote it was a bit confusing. I'm not really concerned about learning to use a touch pad at this point, I just wanted to experiment with shaping. When he started chewing the bowl, I thought I'd go with the flow and get something else for him to chew on that's more chewable - the tug toy.

His food drive is way way way higher than his desire to play tug, so I didn't think that it would confuse him. In hindsight though, it was a bit silly.

I was thinking about maybe using a book for a touch pad, I can't think of anything else that's big enough. As for luring him to do it - he just isn't aware of his feet, and he takes a long time to figure out what he's being rewarded for (his food drives so high that he can't think straight sometimes). Although, I liked what you said Duane about luring in the beginning and then shaping when the dog has an idea about what to do...

Has anyone here used targeting? I hear that it's better than luring with dogs with high food drive because they're focused on what they're doing and not on the food in your hand.

I think a book is too small too.

Like Duane's link, this shows how to go from something raised to something flat:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlMhEUC1SP8



http://leerburg.com/1329.htm

I have also used an old rubbermaid (or tupperware) divided snack server, upside-down. You know that big flat round container with wedge-shaped dividers for crudites and a round space in the middle for dip? It's very sturdy because of all those dividers reinforcing it.


Check out this guy (even though there's no touchpad, it's pretty inspiring ... lol).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYAIzHfTHkw

I like the chairs.

A round flat cushion probably works too. You know the kind you put on a round-seat kitchen chair and tie it to the backrest? All you'd have to do is cut off the tie strings.

I guess my idea of free shaping is a little different than what's being discussed here.

When dealing with older dogs or pups (some breeds) that aren't as biddable or into people pleasing (yet) and don't have a lot of motivation to work with you, sometimes marking a behavior that they naturally do at their own pace gives them an incentive to do it again or begin to understand that it can generate something pleasant.

I would much rather lure and mark to get the positions started but sometimes you're dealing with rescues that want nothing to do with people or have no concept of what working with you can look like.

Treats dropping out of the sky for basic positions can work wonders at starting to turn those lights on.

Your pup looks great Jackie. Actual marker training (Michael Ellis style) is incredible!!