Bad training is bad training, regardless of the venue. I agree that I'd steer completely clear of the training you described.


Some good work in your ob clip! As others said, you want to keep the rewards out of sight and also work a bit on your timing.

As Bob said, "You want to keep the dog food out of site at this point in his training or it can easily become a bribe instead of a reward. ... Bait pouches are good. You can even put it down on top of a table near you."


I'm glad you found marker training and the Ellis videos!

About the PP mention, I hope that you're planning to do a lot of reading and not just jumping into it.

Besides these threads, you won't regret time spent searching for Will Rambeau's posts in this board's Personal Protection forum at http://leerburg.com/webboard/topiclist.php?forum_id=124


http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=26415&page=1#279071

http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=26416&page=1#279074

http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=26417&page=1#279075

http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=24156&page=2#250923


And back to ob .... but feel free to start a PP thread here:

http://leerburg.com/webboard/topiclist.php?forum_id=124

we didn't fly duane . . . i'm a road trip guy

packed up the wife and pup and made a holiday out of it . if i remember correctly it turned out to be a 5000 km round trip .

worth every penny and if and when i can afford it again , i'll be back .

I'm really quite new to this, and I get what you are saying about wanting a dog that does "real" protection, but I think there is a lot of value in titling a dog- for you and him.

Look into PSA or ring sport. You are very lucky to live in a part of the country that has both! Myself, I feel like there is so much more I still need to learn when it comes to these amazing working dogs. I am always looking to improve my skills and dog "sports" is one of the best ways to connect with great dog trainers and figure out the best way to work with your dog's drives.

Thanks guys.

I see what is being said now. I didnt think about not having the food in sight. I always struggle to get it out of my pocket fast enough thinking that was a priority so I take several into my hand at a time. I learned something new and will start doing this. So just to be clear the skill in timing is when I mark "yes" but the delivery of food can be a lagged a bit so the dog learns to anticipate it more?

Its not the 8hr road trip to Eliis its the amount of money I loose in 1 week of work on top of it, lol. More importantly I am not a "vacation" sort of guy. Havent taken one since I got married 8 yrs ago. If I took one to go do dog training me and the dog will be finding a new home, hahaha.

I considered going to a class but now that I see how good Jagger is getting based on what I learned watching the videos I am quite happy. I may change my mind but it really is far for me and not possible to keep going back for 1-2 weeks at a time. I wish I were retired because I would sign up for his 12 week comprehensive program announced on the web site.

Hello Brian, the first thing I always teach other dog owners practice is the clicker skills/marker skills WITHOUT the dog. First we need to get that correct, only then can we really start training the dog.

Your dog is obviously very motivated and wants to work so if you better your clicker skills, he will progress very fast.

Keeping the food out of his sight, marking first and then moving the hand to even pick up the threat (leave alone delivering it ) etc, are important. I can see him offering other behaviours while you are cueing him for some thing else, this tells me that you have to train and mark reward just the behaviour you are trying to put the cue on to.

Overall you have a great dog and you are doing great work, but since you had asked for a critique, I am posting the critique.

Regarding protection , all dogs will bark and alert on strangers, a biting dog is a huge liability and is bound to get you and himself into trouble.


I saw your bite training video too , and he let go at the end when you asked him , but you did not give him a rebite as a reward for letting go. You praised him and petted him , which was not of value to him at that point. You should give him multiple rebites for letting go , to strengthen that behaviour up.

Thanks you for that.


In regards to the bite video my wife cut the video but he was rewarded the sleeve after. I have yet to watch my video on Protection Training with out a Decoy but I do have it. I only know what I saw in the Puppy Bite Training video. I am trying to comprehend how to give the bite command but I guess its like all obedience work but the reward is like you say on the re bite.

I appreciate everyone's help so dont feel like I am fragile and cant take the critiques.

There are several problems with the bite video.

I'm going to ask that PP issues not be addressed in this "Obedience Video" thread.


Thanks

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

And back to ob .... but feel free to start a PP thread here:

http://leerburg.com/webboard/topiclist.php?forum_id=124

"I wish I were retired because I would sign up for his 12 week comprehensive program announced on the web site."


Me too.


About the timing .... loading (charging) the marker associates the marker with good stuff in the dog's mind. And he learns that "marker = 'reward coming.' "

So after loading the marker, your timing emphasis is mainly on when to mark. The dog knows, as Bob mentioned, that the reward is coming, once you mark the behavior. He learned that when you charged your marker.


Have you seen either of the first marker DVDs, by chance?

http://leerburg.com/219.htm

or

http://leerburg.com/training-with-food.htm

The DVDs Connie linked to are fantastic!
Yes, there can be a "lag time" once the dog really understands marker training.
Look at it like a kid that has faithfully received a reward for cleaning his/her room He trusts his parents because they have always done it. He doesn't have to see it.
If the parents "always" hold a cookie in front of the kid in order to get him/her to work then think about the first time they want him to clean the room and they have nothing. He/she sees no reason to work.
You look like your off to a really nice start with your dog. A little bit of polishing your timing will make huge strides in your training.