Re: Fur saver vs prong
[Re: Brian Drake ]
#386396 - 11/16/2013 08:59 PM |
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In addition to the Ellis leash pressure, there is another exercise that helped me tremendously.
Even though my dog picked up on the leash pressure training right off, she would still sometimes pull. If she wasn't in a "heel" or a "fuss" and she encountered a strong distraction or she was anticipating where we were going, she would get to the end of the leash. I learned to stop if she leaned into the collar. She would stop and look back, and I'd tell her "Don't pull". When she relieved the pressure, I would resume walking.
Now, I don't have to stop. She leans into the collar, I say "don't pull", and she slackens.
One question, though... Are you not teaching the dog a heel? I'm guessing that the pulling does not occur when the dog is in a heel?
Sadie |
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Re: Fur saver vs prong
[Re: Duane Hull ]
#386403 - 11/16/2013 09:18 PM |
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I have that question, too ....
Formal heel isn't something I ask for on walks, and I do what Duane said as part of plain old loose-leash ("Let's go" versus "Heel," for me) : I stop if the dog pulls. Just stop dead. Pulling results in zero action for the dog.
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Re: Fur saver vs prong
[Re: steve strom ]
#386409 - 11/17/2013 10:00 AM |
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You're explaining fine Brian. On a walk, what matters most to me is that its clear to him when he is expected not to pull and when he is released from paying attention to me and allowed to be dog and sniff, look, jump on, whatever. Its ok with me if they pull a little when they're released. Just exactly like you said, not towing you around.
I'd be careful not to blur your formal ob with walks and hanging out. I think the most useful thing I do to teach my dog not to pull too hard is to just hang out in one place and not let him pull. On a walk I just say easy and give him a little pop. Using the leash pressure all the time, I'd worry its going to condition him to always pull and it will be less useful in your formal ob.
The micro prong is fine. You can use it on ANY dog. If it works, it works. If a fur saver, a nylon choker, or a flat buckle collar works, it works. Training is about making things clear to your dog, no matter what your using.
Nagging is something thats ineffective or distracting to the dogs focus. You can nag by saying good dog too many times and you can nag him by constantly tightening the leash trying to stear him around. It generally leads to them ignoring you, but you can get a little more of a reaction out of them with it sometimes too. Nothing good.
I'm kinda thinking you may be doing a little bit of that. When you say you pressure him down, I'm not sure your able to make clear to him what you wanted. I know he's young, but I want him to know he has to down. Downward pressure everytime is you doing it for him. If he isn't comfortable downing around the other dogs yet, keep a little distance so that HE can do what you ask. Does that make sense?
This is perfect. You are right. All along our 2.5 mile walk I was expecting him to stay locked to my left leg, lol. I guess I can allow some normal dog behavior in there, ooopss.Its amazing how stupid things like this are missed at times so I appreciate the help.
For the down he will down great on command but sometimes if he wont under distraction I help him with the leash. Last night I worked on leash pressure using the fur saver for a while out front the house because there is some activity and distractions. He did great. If people walked by with their dogs he would pull to the end of the leash and I kept it tight with reward pressure. Once the people passed he snapped out of it and jumped back so I marked and rewarded him. I just need to keep doing this because with minimal to no distractions he responds to either collar great. Under distraction the prong really shines but I am thinking maybe for the wrong reason which is a cover for him not really getting the concept just yet.
brian45acp |
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Re: Fur saver vs prong
[Re: Brian Drake ]
#386410 - 11/17/2013 10:06 AM |
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Duane and Connie:
Both great points made there. I am teaching focused heeling and he stays glued to my left leg off leash. I do the drills of moving my left leg forward, backward, left turns, and he will keep right there with me. Keeping long term attention is more the issue on that but to be expected at this age I think.
You guys all nailed it. I was obsessed with keeping the dog right next to me for our exercise walks and I guess frustrating myself with that agenda.
I am gonna keep plugging away here and I am sure it will work it self out with more time. My back command is really starting to register also so I am going to use that just like you guys do with "dont pull". He understands it while heeling so I might as well re enforce it during normal OB.
brian45acp |
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Re: Fur saver vs prong
[Re: Brian Drake ]
#386438 - 11/17/2013 05:10 PM |
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The reason I asked about the heeling is because it is a good position from which to manage the dog. True, I like to loose-leash and allow my dog to "be a dog", but, if she starts getting too worked up over a distraction, I put her in a heel. From there, I can enforce obedience or divert her away from the distraction. It's not a formal competition heel. It's more for orientation (next to me instead of out front).
When at the training club, if other dogs are on the field, I keep her at heel because of how reactive she can be. I don't want to set her up for failure, so I don't let her have extra leash.
Sadie |
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Re: Fur saver vs prong
[Re: Brian Drake ]
#386447 - 11/17/2013 08:12 PM |
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He knows heel position and is focused heeling short distances of about 20 steps or so. Now the fun begins doing it under distraction.
In my searching on the forum I saw a really good post where someone did a step by step on how to work engagement. I followed it today along with what I saw in the Ellis vids and it worked great. I am up to about 20 seconds of a continuous stare into my eyes on command. For this work the fur saver worked best just to give little taps and remind him to keep focus on my eyes.
You guys helped me alot with thinking of new ideas and get out of my mental rut. I have a new game plan and agenda on the list to work on now. Thanks a bunch to all of you.
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Re: Fur saver vs prong
[Re: Brian Drake ]
#386450 - 11/17/2013 09:42 PM |
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I can't believe how much I learned just reading this thread and how much of it will be implemented starting tomorrow morning with my girl. Very eye-opening.
Thank you Brian for posting your question.
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Re: Fur saver vs prong
[Re: Brian Drake ]
#386457 - 11/18/2013 12:50 AM |
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Did a very annoying walk tonight, lol. Using the fur saver to be sure I can tell he understand leash pressure vs the prong giving into the discomfort.
What I did is walked around the block a few times and each time he pulled to the end of the leash I stopped, used my negative marker, gave a back command, and once he came to my side I marked and rewarded with food. I kept doing this a ton of times and soon he started to just figure it out. I noticed I didnt have to use my negative marker as much as time went on because he would bring himself back to my left leg or at least put slack in the leash.
I think I am on my way to really teaching the leash pressure in a more practical way and under distractions. He moves around with hardly any pressure at all at home but out and about is the new challenge. Working on the engagement of him looking at me helped also. If he was ahead of me and I gave a look command or his heel position command he couldnt comply without having to back up closer to me.
I feel like I now have a few tools to use to correct the pulling problem but can tell he will learn so much more just from this scenario. The little leash taps on the fur saver also give him some feedback and setup some confidence builders that come after a light correction. Basically I see that this will help balance him and start to introduce corrections but in a slow paced way and for nothing that serious. Later on I am sure there this will help him get over stress and bigger corrections if needed.
brian45acp |
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Re: Fur saver vs prong
[Re: Brian Drake ]
#386651 - 11/23/2013 12:08 PM |
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