Quote: Chuck Scott

As far as the fence, we've had 3 contractors give estimates that are very close in price that range from $9500 to $10,200. This is an ornamental/aluminum fence. The other homes in our area have this type of fence, so I wouldn't feel comfortable with a chain link or a wooden fence for consistency and professional looking sake. With that expense, my wife and I have decided to forego the fence option and get our son thru his Junior and Senior years of college.

Yikes, that's a painful amount of money for a fence! And I can certainly understand that son's college education trumps fancy fence any day.

I'm used to do-it-yourself fencing for my yard, but we live in the country, and wood-and-wire fencing is pretty common around here (plus we have our own post hole digger). In your situation, I do understand the need to conform with the neighborhood standard.

You mentioned going to dog shows to look at various breeds. I'm wondering if you went to conformation shows only, or if you watched some performance events, too. If not, it might be that attending some obedience/rally/agility trials will give you some ideas about breeds that may fit the parameters you desire for intelligence, trainability, etc.

You are correct, the dog shows I've attended were mostly conformation, one big show (Louisville) did have multiple disciplines. The reason I concentrated on visiting the conformation style was to see the breeds that I'm interested in react around other dogs and how they did meandering about with strangers/spectators. With the agility, obedience, etc. style, it's typically a one on one and no real interaction with other dogs. I realize these are dog shows and the dogs are trained and comfortable in this type of environment, but I felt this was an accurate illustration of their temperament. The Manchester Terriers, Whippets, Vizslas, Pharaohs and Dobes impressed me greatly.

Again, I'm definitely opened to other breeds, but from what I've read and investigated and communicated with breeders, those breeds have received consistent reviews in terms of health, temperament and intelligence. Of course, the breeders are biased and I would be too. I am not married or set on those breeds, so any suggestions on others that I'm simply overlooking would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

 Quote: Bob Scott

I've never had a recall or control problem with any dog regardless of breed and I've owned half a dozen different terrier breeds.
That's all about you and your training abilities not the breed. Without excellent control what you've heard will happen.

I HATE the "fence ONLY homes" requirement.
Its a smack in the face when it comes to hardcore dog people.
I HATE fences anyways. So many LAZY people THROW dogs in the backyard unattended, and rely on the FENCE to keep them safe.

It bothers me as much as the "fixed dog only" requirement.
Though... i don't want to derail the thread.

Sorry about ranting and not giving any help.

"I HATE fences anyways. So many LAZY people THROW dogs in the backyard unattended, and rely on the FENCE to keep them safe."


1. How would you keep loose dogs (or groups of dogs, or other animals, or kids, and on and on and on) out of your dog's yard?


2. My dogs are well-trained, and they are not outside unattended, but they still would NOT be out in the yard off-leash without that fence.

And back on topic:

 Quote: Chuck Scott

You are correct, the dog shows I've attended were mostly conformation, one big show (Louisville) did have multiple disciplines. The reason I concentrated on visiting the conformation style was to see the breeds that I'm interested in react around other dogs and how they did meandering about with strangers/spectators. With the agility, obedience, etc. style, it's typically a one on one and no real interaction with other dogs. I realize these are dog shows and the dogs are trained and comfortable in this type of environment, but I felt this was an accurate illustration of their temperament. The Manchester Terriers, Whippets, Vizslas, Pharaohs and Dobes impressed me greatly.

Again, I'm definitely opened to other breeds, but from what I've read and investigated and communicated with breeders, those breeds have received consistent reviews in terms of health, temperament and intelligence. Of course, the breeders are biased and I would be too. I am not married or set on those breeds, so any suggestions on others that I'm simply overlooking would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

 Quote: Chuck Scott

You are correct, the dog shows I've attended were mostly conformation, one big show (Louisville) did have multiple disciplines. The reason I concentrated on visiting the conformation style was to see the breeds that I'm interested in react around other dogs and how they did meandering about with strangers/spectators. With the agility, obedience, etc. style, it's typically a one on one and no real interaction with other dogs. I realize these are dog shows and the dogs are trained and comfortable in this type of environment, but I felt this was an accurate illustration of their temperament. The Manchester Terriers, Whippets, Vizslas, Pharaohs and Dobes impressed me greatly.

Again, I'm definitely opened to other breeds, but from what I've read and investigated and communicated with breeders, those breeds have received consistent reviews in terms of health, temperament and intelligence. Of course, the breeders are biased and I would be too. I am not married or set on those breeds, so any suggestions on others that I'm simply overlooking would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

I don't think a conformation show is going to give you a great picture of the nature of a breed. Those dogs have been handled to the nth degree and have been highly conditioned how to react.
You like the finished product, but are you in a similar situation to produce such a finished product yourself?

I like seeing dogs in real life situations to see what their temperament is like. What happens when you take them out of the environment that they're super comfortable in? For instance I've recently been inquiring about a getting a pup and I really want to know how adaptable the parents are. The sire I really like? the dog who is a working farm dog but had been flown internationally and seemed as comfortable in a busy airport as on the farm working.

Re: Intelligence. It's different than trainability. Many breeds are pretty smart, but not all of them want to work in tandem with a person. That can be worked on a built to a certain extent but the breeds that were bred to work with a person (herding and hunting breeds especially) are going to be easier for the average person to train.

Within every breed you can get a wide variety of temperaments depending on the lines and the breeding goals. So once you've got a couple breeds that you like I'd encourage you to find actual breeders so you can meet their dogs and talk to people who have purchased dogs from them in the past to see if they are producing a type that is well suited for you.

^^^^ Mara makes a lot of excellent points above!

Don't want to get too off-track here, but you mentioned the Doberman as one of the breeds you were particularly impressed with. I love Dobermans and have owned them for decades. But you listed health as an important parameter in your choice. Please research the health issues of that breed carefully. PM me if you'd like to discuss it in more detail.

Good info and clarification on the last couple of posts. I hadn't thought of intelligence and trainability as being differentiated. This is so true in the workplace. I'll take the "lesser educated worker" that's eager and willing to learn much faster than the individual that holds a Masters but is less eager and borderline lazy. That eager one is the one I'll have in my camp - EVERYTIME!!

I'm glad all has weighed in with my thread - thanks for clearing things up and giving me more options on my next breed, it appears the tide has shifted and I'm OK with that. I'll not be closed minded to the hearding and hunting breeds. Not that I was before, it's just that they are slim pickins with the type of coat and look I'm most interested in. The Manchester Terrier, Whippet, Dobe, German Pinscher, Vizsla all seem to have a clean and athletic appearance.

Please share ideas of hunters/herders with those types of features.

Marla, I totally agree about the dog shows and getting somewhat of a skewed idea of how a dog acts outside of that arena (no pun). The shows have been the only realistic option to actually see the multiple breeds. While doing my research on the German Pinscher, for example, some of the best and reputable breeders are on the west coast. Respected and responsible breeders for the Manchester Terriers are in the East Coast and Iowa/Nebraska. Visiting these places will be costly and impractical as step one. Once a breed has been determined and I've chosen a breeder, then I'll absolutely visit them and pursue the next step, but doing this out of the gates seemed premature.

Again, thanks for the input from all - Mara and Cheri, thank you too!

You might consider an Italian Greyhound. I put a CD on one who had hi prey and food drive. One of her pups is currently doing narcotics work in Omaha, Nebraska.

You have to really select the line in this breed. Some are nervous hot house flowers afraid of everything, and some are so 'sight-houndy" that they are hard to reach. But they are a lovely dog, totally portable, incredibly athletic, 0 shed and they rarely rarely bark. They are heat seeking and want to sleep in your bed, though. Under the covers. They don't roam, especially if the weather is bad.

The manchester terriers that I have known were really yappy.

Of all the breeds you listed, I'd be inclined to pursue the Vizsla some more. It's a hunting breed and I'd look for a breeder who does more than conformation with their dogs (actual field trials would be great, but any sort of performance event will help you see how trainable/responsive their dogs are). Then go meet the dogs and see if they click with you.