By gosh, someone gets it..if ya kill it, ya grill it!!! I also hunt and completely agree with your moral.thank you for your insights. I felt his area is his. But as you said, just lunging out while on our walk is NOT ACCEPTABLE.

Their beds and their food bowls, once filled, are theirs. EVERYTHING else is mine.

Ha ha...You give me such realistic goals CJ..Thanx.

All dogs that hunt don't do it for food, and that's where some issues can come into play.

I live in suburbs near some forested areas and undeveloped land. We have wildlife nearby, even in the field behind my home, but not usually in the suburbs themselves. We do, however, have rats and mice because of the fields.

My dog loves to critter. She has strong drive to hunt. She kills vermin in our yard when she's left there during the day. She has no desire to eat them. She's just like a terrier; she kills merely for the sport of it. I can call her off of a rat, but I want her to kill them.

However, when I take her to run in the field, she is not allowed to chase rabbits or birds. It is not productive and there's no redeeming consequence since she's not hunting to eat. I don't even allow her to sniff and dig for mice for fear that she'll disturb a bird's nest.

If something untoward did happen, she would not be allowed to eat her kill, as I am trying to discourage the live hunting without killing her drive to kill vermin.

 Quote: Robert overbeek

Ha ha...You give me such realistic goals CJ..Thanx.

Maybe not so much a goal as a way of life.

As Duane mentioned, much like humans, there are different reasons for killing things. We're not trophy hunters and I even tend to shoo flys and mosquitos away. If me or my dogs are going to kill something, as opposed to the grocery store butcher, it's going to be eaten.

This applies specifically to our philosophy, our dogs, our training, our surroundings and our way of life. The same dogs/owner teams, with any one these things, under different circumstances, could be a very bad idea.

They've never gotten any rats (we don't tend to have those around here) but they would be taken away. If we knew they were in an area, they wouldn't be allowed to hunt them. Bob would deal with that. Along with shrews and any other undesirables.

So again like Duane, completely different set of circumstances.

We don't fight against mother nature, it created each dog perfectly in all they are capable of doing.

Refining those skills to fit into our lifestyle takes daily conditioning. You've got to figure out what is acceptable, know the consequences of each action and train accordingly.

A solid recall and "out" are a must.

 Quote: CJ Barrett

They've never gotten any rats (we don't tend to have those around here) but they would be taken away. If we knew they were in an area, they wouldn't be allowed to hunt them. Bob would deal with that.

FWIW, C.J.... Sadie is MUCH better at dealing with the rats than any human exterminator I've ever hired (no offense to Bob). I was not able to keep them from digging dens under my slab until I got her. However, I do shudder at the thought of her eating one!

It's pretty quiet on here and Bob's got the two big boys out on the boat (only the two now ). Well... and Piss Willy but he's more like a cat, so let me share a story.

When Bob and I met we lived in a totally different area, suburban city type area. We'd rented an old 5 bedroom home in the outskirts, kind of like a mother-in-law home on a berry farm.

He bought this old truck and was going to use parts off it to fix the one he was driving (we were strugglin' youngin's at the time). Well, it must have had a rat or two in with all the junk that came in the box with it.

The tunnels you're talking about, it took about 3 months and they were all under our mud room/porch type thing and god knows where else. They'd come out at night and run around in there. I always knocked on my own door before entering for fear I'd spot one of these things. This was coastal BC and they were huge.

We had a young shepherd at the time but he was not the boy for this job. Bob came up with the bright idea to shoot them. We were on a farm, in the back 40 and the landlord was amazed that we were actually paying him rent to live in this place. Trust me, a few .22 holes was nothing.

We had quite the routine going. Late in the evening, Bob would pull up a chair and it was my job to fling the door open and flip the light on in this room. He'd get a few every night and we got rid of the problem. And once they were gone he showed me the tunnels, it's something I will never forget.

Totally hear what you're saying. And yes, if there are ever rats where I'm living again, the boys and I will take a hotel room and Bob can deal with it. Maybe he could hire someone with a rat dog this time.

 Quote: CJ Barrett

It's pretty quiet on here and Bob's got the two big boys out on the boat (only the two now ). Well... and Piss Willy but he's more like a cat, so let me share a story.

When Bob and I met we lived in a totally different area, suburban city type area. We'd rented an old 5 bedroom home in the outskirts, kind of like a mother-in-law home on a berry farm.

He bought this old truck and was going to use parts off it to fix the one he was driving (we were strugglin' youngin's at the time). Well, it must have had a rat or two in with all the junk that came in the box with it.

The tunnels you're talking about, it took about 3 months and they were all under our mud room/porch type thing and god knows where else. They'd come out at night and run around in there. I always knocked on my own door before entering for fear I'd spot one of these things. This was coastal BC and they were huge.

We had a young shepherd at the time but he was not the boy for this job. Bob came up with the bright idea to shoot them. We were on a farm, in the back 40 and the landlord was amazed that we were actually paying him rent to live in this place. Trust me, a few .22 holes was nothing.

We had quite the routine going. Late in the evening, Bob would pull up a chair and it was my job to fling the door open and flip the light on in this room. He'd get a few every night and we got rid of the problem. And once they were gone he showed me the tunnels, it's something I will never forget.

Totally hear what you're saying. And yes, if there are ever rats where I'm living again, the boys and I will take a hotel room and Bob can deal with it. Maybe he could hire someone with a rat dog this time.

OMG OMG OMG!

I'll tell you one thing ... I did NOT Google "rat tunnel - images" after I read this!

It was something Connie. Had I known (and we lived with these things for almost a year) that that was under the floor, I don't think I would have slept at night. The aftermath images are still with me.

So needless to say, and it's a very personal choice, my dogs will never be allowed to hunt rats. The face, the germs, the stink, the fact I may have to take it away from them. Nope, not going to happen.

CJ... if you have the stomach for it, search on youtube for rat dogs. There's at least one terrier club in NYC that gets together to clean out warehouses and alleys. Pretty exciting hunt.

I hope noone would be offended. I just like watching working dogs do what they were bred to do.