Quote: Tresa Hendrix

Connie, he scratches the easiest reached places the most esp around the base of his tail, armpits, behind his ears and he rubs his face all the time, sneezes a lot too. I've checked and checked for fleas and can't find any of them or any flea dirt. Idk if he's so allergic to them that one I missed would do that to him or its something in the environment.

Did you do a white sheet test?

Yes, one exposure can make a dog with flea allergy dermatitis crazy.


Is the sneezing all the time, or certain times of day or areas? Are his eyes running? That is, might he have a foxtail (or similar) up his nose? (I'm thinking of the chance that there might be two things going on.)

He sneezes a lot and he has eye buggers...he has chewed between his toes real bad and rubs his face all the time. I was always real good at finding fleas on black dogs at the kennel and grooming shop that other people couldn't find. That's not to say that there couldn't be one rouge flea on him and I know some dogs are that sensitive. His sneezing comes and goes, like some days are worse as is the itching.

 Quote: Tresa Hendrix

He sneezes a lot and he has eye buggers...he has chewed between his toes real bad and rubs his face all the time. I was always real good at finding fleas on black dogs at the kennel and grooming shop that other people couldn't find. That's not to say that there couldn't be one rouge flea on him and I know some dogs are that sensitive. His sneezing comes and goes, like some days are worse as is the itching.

Until he can get to a derm vet, there are some steps you can take.

Number one for me would be to bathe him, and rinse very well. You will be removing allergens from his coat and paws, where they force him to breathe them in 24/7. While you do this (only with dog shampoo ... no people shampoo), his bedding should be laundered, and someone should vacuum as thoroughly as possible, then take out the vacuum bag to the outdoor barrel. This very basic step at least gets allergens (protein molecules from whatever he is allergic to, like trees, grasses, weed pollens, house dust, etc.) and even fleas off of him .... it gives him a break.

I'd set up a pan of clean water (always clean; not reused) for him to walk through and not drag allergens, pollen, etc., inside to his bed and the carpet after he in on meadow, grass, woods, etc. Blot dry gently and thoroughly (to avoid bacteria and yeast conditions).

I have a ton of work this weekend, so instead of retyping the wheel, I will dig up an old thread to get you started on the topics of antihistamines, etc.

I assume he is on fish oil and E? How much?

BTW, "especially in summer" makes food allergies almost moot. In addition, food allergies are by far less common than #1 flea, and #2 inhalant/environmental.

So I'm giving you more of an inhalant/environmental and flea overview.

http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=22712&page=1

That's a good start.

More when I can.

PS

You already saw that a bath helps for a few days. It not only removes allergens, but when you use a washcloth, you help remove any beginning yeast overgrowth.

Bathing, even rinsing on the between-bath days (which lacks the yeast-removal benefit but still helps remove some allergens), the pan of foot-bath .... daily looking inside the ears (with flashlight) .... the pointers in the thread I posted above .... these are real, positive steps to do while you make an appointment, find out about Apoquel availability, etc.

The thread also discusses antihistamines

Sent you a PM.

Don't know anything about allergies but if it is a kind of yeast infection, here's my experience with it:

http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=27239&page=1

Connie's suggestion about the foot bath is excellent.

We used a mixture of Apple Cider Vinegar and Isopropyl Alcohol. The vinegar penetrates and kills the yeast and the alcohol dries the feet quickly. You don't want them swimming or in water while you're doing it for 10 days. This was all under a vet's care.

Another suggestion in there is from Joyce Salazar, about bathing them in Apple Cider Vinegar. Never had to do that with Vince but might be something your dog would benefit from.

ACV has some pretty amazing properties as far as the skin and coat go.

The thread linked above (this one:
http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=22712&page=1) has a lot of good info.

There's one thing, though, that I want to take issue with--or at least raise the question:

An allergic response in the body is a function of an over-active immune response. It is, in effect, having "too much immunity,"--an inappropriately high immune response to a foreign protein that isn't actually a threat to the organism.

It's not really correct to think about "boosting a dog's immunity" to help alleviate allergic symptoms. I'm not really convinced that there's much that one could do to "boost" a targeted immune response anyway. There's very little evidence. It's a complicated system, with lots of receptors and chemicals and various kinds of cells involved. It's not just one "immune system."

When we talk about things like a healthy diet, or appropriate supplements (to cover deficiencies), those are to ensure the animal is otherwise as healthy as possible to live with chronic disease. Fatty acid supplements improve the skin barrier, etc. These are all advisable. But not really because they are boosting the dog's immunity, per se.

Medicines that modulate allergic response intentionally suppress "immunity." Antihistamines suppress a targeted immune response (several different ones). Big guns like the steroids or even Apoquel are immune suppressants. That's why they work. Some lower the animal's ability to fight off all invaders--real or imagined. Some are highly targeted and only work to switch off a few. But which one? That's why some antihistamines don't do squat. They flipped the wrong switch.

Perhaps it's only semantics. But I think it's worth understanding that nothing you can do will make your dog "so healthy" that he will not be allergic any more. It is not like a cold virus that the body can eventually "fight off." It is a genetic flaw in the way the dog is made. No matter what, when exposed to the allergen, the dog's body will react as he is chemically programmed to do.

Which is why this is frustrating. Because there's only two general paths of treatment: Limit exposure to the allergen....or find an appropriate way to suppress the dog's immunity in as targeted a way as possible. Or both. For life.

(The exception to the above is the category of treatment called immunotherapy--"allergy shots"--which basically attempt to re-train the immune response by exposing the dog to tiny doses of the allergen, then gradually increasing the exposure. It works sometimes. The treatments can be expensive, especially at first. It requires first determining the exact allergen. I have no experience with immunotherapy.)

Really good (and thoughtful) post .... and the whole "immune system response" thing is just as frustrating to me.

For example, I go from thinking "broken" to thinking "over-active" about the IgE response and what is says about the immune system.

"But I think it's worth understanding that nothing you can do will make your dog "so healthy" that he will not be allergic any more. It is not like a cold virus that the body can eventually "fight off." It is a genetic flaw in the way the dog is made." I wish I had said that!

It's a good segue to something I feel strongly about, which is not breeding allergic dogs. Ever. People who have owned allergic dogs and experienced the frustration, the misery to the dog, the related serious conditions, the terrible expense, the damage to the dog from the "magic bullet" of steroids .... I don't believe any of them would want an allergic dog bred.


It's a huge field. I'm strong on choosing a vet with expertise in the field for a dog with severe or complicated allergies. I very much believe that while you can go wrong, as with choosing any specialist, you are at least choosing among the most knowledgeable group; whether you seek a strictly Western-med vet or one also versed in what we in this country often call "alternative" therapy, I've learned over the decades that unless it's a simple case, I'm soon turning to a derm specialist.

(For folks who don't have an allergic dog ... the vet allergy specialist is likely to be a derm practice or what is now often called Allergy and Dermatology. Dogs, as compared to humans, have many more histamine receptors in the skin and fewer in the nose.)



"Which is why this is frustrating. Because there's only two general paths of treatment: Limit exposure to the allergen....or find an appropriate way to suppress the dog's immunity in as targeted a way as possible. Or both. For life.

(The exception to the above is the category of treatment called immunotherapy--"allergy shots"--which basically attempt to re-train the immune response by exposing the dog to tiny doses of the allergen, then gradually increasing the exposure. It works sometimes. The treatments can be expensive, especially at first. It requires first determining the exact allergen. I have no experience with immunotherapy.) "

Yes. As we keep saying, the more we can remove the allergens from the dog's space, the better.

That might be just eliminating as many known allergens as possible, or the more targeted method of first finding out which are the individual dog's worst allergens via intradermal tests, then eliminating the ones we can and using immunotherapy against the others. Yes, it works sometimes. (I have had good-to-very-good results, but this isn't at all universal.)





I agree with everything Tracy said.

I also believe, after a lot of experience, that the healthier the dog is, the more appropriate his diet, including long-chain Omega 3s, the less awful is much (maybe most) of the stuff that comes with allergies, like bacterial and yeast skin infections.

I also agree with everything Tracy and Connie have said. And Connie's last sentence in the above post about keeping the dog as healthy as possible with diet is so important. Kasey is allergic to 43 of the 75 allergens they tested him for 6 years ago. We did the allergy shots, which help the itching about 50%, but nothing worked really well because of the amount of things he's allergic to. Until we started using the Apoquel he was miserable quite a bit.

BUT, because he is fed raw and given the oil & E, you can hardly ever tell by his skin that he's an allergy dog. He doesn't get bad rashes, has never had an ear infection,
he doesn't have to take antibiotics for bacterial skin infections, and yeast is rarely a problem. My derma vet, who has a big practice with hundreds of dogs, said she has never seen an allergy dog with this extent of allergies, that looks so good! His coat is shiny and healthy, and his skin normal looking. I attribute all that to his diet, and she has to agree (even though she does not recommend raw feeding to her patients).

My last comment is there is nothing worth more than a trip to a good derma vet.