Re: Spaying a working female malinois? Yes or No?
[Re: Lindsay Janes ]
#395711 - 12/15/2014 10:10 AM |
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Thanks for the informative article about spaying, Connie.
I am going to go with Betty's suggestion. I have found more information about spaying Belgian malinois.. Somewhere on a website saying that beglian malinois is very sensitive to anesthetia due to not enough fat in their body weight. http://malinut.com/ref/anesthesia/primer/
I am going to ride this out and see how she is doing with her heat. I am concerned that she couldn't handle anesthesia due to her low body fat. She is thin, but she is very healthy active malinois according to two different veterinarians. I am not concerned about other male dogs get to her. She lives indoor and always goes outside with me there. My yard is all fenced in (6 foot tall)block.
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Re: Spaying a working female malinois? Yes or No?
[Re: Lindsay Janes ]
#395714 - 12/15/2014 12:58 PM |
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6 feet is easily scalable by almost any dog. We had a foster that could scale 8 foot block walls.
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Re: Spaying a working female malinois? Yes or No?
[Re: Cathy Goessman ]
#395715 - 12/15/2014 01:11 PM |
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6 feet is easily scalable by almost any dog. We had a foster that could scale 8 foot block walls.
HUGE ditto. That means nothing to the horny fellas outside the fence.
This (with pre-exit surveillance) is critical:
"She lives indoor and always goes outside with me there."
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Re: Spaying a working female malinois? Yes or No?
[Re: Lindsay Janes ]
#395716 - 12/15/2014 03:12 PM |
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I have a 6 yo GSD intact female. She is not a candidate for passing on bloodlines. I have put off spaying her, but my vet is insisting I do it pretty soon. He is adamant about it because he feels that the risk of ovarian cancer is too great not to avoid.
While I like having a naturally intact dog, the accompanying issues do get more and more wearisome as each cycle goes by. The seasonal changes are evident but not extreme. No, my dog does not get louder or more vocal when she's in heat, but she does get a little pushier about always wanting to go outside. She can get a little moody and lethargic at times, especially if she swells up. She is softer during training at this time, and I tire of fighting her desire to sniff instead of focus.
Every heat cycle (two per year) is preceded by a blown coat (a Mal shouldn't be as bad as my double-coated sable GSD), and I suffer through more than "a few drops" of bleeding for 19+ days. Twice a year.
I don't expect that my dog's work ethic or energy level will change much after I spay her, but I would likely make a subconscious, if not deliberately conscious, effort to keep her active.
FWIW, it seems that many folks who fix their working dogs do so deliberately to HELP their dog's performance in one way or another.
Unless you live in some kind of bubble, NEVER leave your dog outside unattended if she will stand for a male. If you're not sure that you want purebred puppies, just imagine how hard it will be to get rid of 10-12 Mal/unknown mixes. Not only can males go over and under seemingly unpenetrable walls (I've actually seen one male coonhound climb on the back of another to go over a fence), but so can my bitch.
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Re: Spaying a working female malinois? Yes or No?
[Re: Cathy Goessman ]
#395717 - 12/15/2014 03:47 PM |
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6 feet is easily scalable by almost any dog. We had a foster that could scale 8 foot block walls.
Of course! I don't leave any of my dogs alone when outside include my two neutered male dogs. I live near wash. My house is only 10 minute away by walking. We have had a few incidents with hawk who tried to take my little dog away. Also, we live near a few colonies of coyotes down the wash. I don't leave her outside by herself with no one to watch. When I cannot watch her, she is in crate. I'm not that stupid.
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Re: Spaying a working female malinois? Yes or No?
[Re: Lindsay Janes ]
#395718 - 12/15/2014 04:08 PM |
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Duane - you might want to ask your vet what they feel the risk of ovarian cancer is. From everything I've read it's pretty low statistically. I'd personally be more worried about pyo. Also, The risk of hemangiosarcoma appears like it might be quite a bit higher in late spayed females. If I had a female in your situation, I might look into an ovary sparing spay instead of a full spay.
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Kelly wrote 12/15/2014 07:12 PM
Re: Spaying a working female malinois? Yes or No?
[Re: Lindsay Janes ]
#395721 - 12/15/2014 07:12 PM |
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Thanks for the informative article about spaying, Connie.
I am going to go with Betty's suggestion. I have found more information about spaying Belgian malinois.. Somewhere on a website saying that beglian malinois is very sensitive to anesthetia due to not enough fat in their body weight. http://malinut.com/ref/anesthesia/primer/
I am going to ride this out and see how she is doing with her heat. I am concerned that she couldn't handle anesthesia due to her low body fat. She is thin, but she is very healthy active malinois according to two different veterinarians. I am not concerned about other male dogs get to her. She lives indoor and always goes outside with me there. My yard is all fenced in (6 foot tall)block.
Let your vet know that they should use the anesthesia protocol used for sight hounds. Both of my Mals tolerated anesthesia ok, but it was a lot pricier than using the "typical" anesthesia used. My vet used Propoflo to put them under and Sevoflurane to keep them under. Sevo is easier for the dog to wake up from- according to my vet. Both of them woke up well from the anesthesia, and I was able to take them home that night.
Personally I chose to keep both my female Mals intact. When they were 7, Caterina got a Pyo and her spay surgery was an emergency. I had her sister Toni spayed 6 months later. It was a personal choice to keep them intact, even though they were never going to be bred, but the Pyo scared the hell out of me. If I were able to go back, I would probably choose to keep them intact until 2-3 years and then spay them.
As for how they act during a heat cycle, it depends on the dog. Toni was a complete bitch, but she still worked for me. Caterina was very docile and quiet- kind of distracted when working. Drift, my GSD is a complete idiot when she's in heat.
Good luck!!
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Re: Spaying a working female malinois? Yes or No?
[Re: Mara Jessup ]
#395722 - 12/15/2014 07:59 PM |
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Duane - you might want to ask your vet what they feel the risk of ovarian cancer is. From everything I've read it's pretty low statistically. I'd personally be more worried about pyo. Also, The risk of hemangiosarcoma appears like it might be quite a bit higher in late spayed females. If I had a female in your situation, I might look into an ovary sparing spay instead of a full spay.
I didn't grill him, because he got very upset when I asked if it was worth risking. Evidently, he feels pretty strongly that the risk in spaying her is much lower than the risks associated with keeping the ovaries. We do live in a cancer belt.
Sounds like maybe I need to talk to some different vets instead of this one.
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Re: Spaying a working female malinois? Yes or No?
[Re: Mara Jessup ]
#395723 - 12/15/2014 10:23 PM |
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Also, The risk of hemangiosarcoma appears like it might be quite a bit higher in late spayed females. If I had a female in your situation, I might look into an ovary sparing spay instead of a full spay.
Thank you for that suggestion! I have been looking at ovary sparing spay lately. I have never heard of it before until you brought it up. I like what I have read so far the only risk is it needs to done by a skilled veterinarian right? Because of the infection?
I lost my former dog to hemangiosarcoma because she was spayed at 8 weeks old by huamne society. They had a policy that all pupppies must be spayed and neutered before adoption. Losing to hemangiosarcoma really broke my heart into pieces.
Kelly,
thank you for your suggestion. I am glad you brought up about anesthesia. I will talk to my vet about the risk.
Thank you to all for helping me making the right decision,
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Re: Spaying a working female malinois? Yes or No?
[Re: Lindsay Janes ]
#395724 - 12/16/2014 07:13 AM |
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Actually, spaying early doesn't appear to increase the risk of hemangio (in the studies I've read) But spaying after 2 or 3 y/o does. From the studies I've read it seems to be a complex choice for females. Some cancers are higher, some are lower, then there are other health issues liike pyo and urinary incontinance. And some of the risks vary by breed. I'll try to link to a couple studies when I'm back on my computer. For those on FB, there is a pretty good group (ovary sparing spay and vasectomy info group) with lots of science based info.
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