awesome. thanks guys.

things are going well. I posted a few issues that may sound like there are lots of issues but things are going well. The only main thing that concerns me is the barrier/fear for barking dogs but that has already been addressed.

We talked about the main issue of engagement and I was at the vet today with other dogs and kids and was able to play tug/fetch call her attention off of the distractions and play tug.

So thanks for all the help.

Good post Mara.

Mark and reward for nothing more then touching the dog's collar in the beginning and build off of those in puppy steps.

I still believe that any puppy/dog needs to understand consequences but of course appropriate to the pup's age and what it is going to be used for.

I have a follow up question. After some more time I am almost positive it is prey drive. Anything that moves around her is fair game. Hands, toys, leashes and collars. She really wants to chase my boys as they play which seems to be same issue and no I haven't allowed her to do so. She even made my hands bleeds as I was holding still for the out, she just goes to hands instead. She also did bite my youngest barefoot. I want to add that I didn't send kid out barefoot and such, he disobeyed and learned a hard lesson. Still this is concerning that the pup can't figure out to not bite. In fact she has bit them a couple times and draw blood. I am trying to be patient with this prey drive management/training in drive but I can't keep dealing with bites to humans. She is about 12 weeks old.

My question.
Does the dog know the difference between corrections in prey drive? For example, correcting dog for prey behavior on hands will that stifle prey drive for toys? Or is it simply a don't bite humans issue. I did try bob method twice and she squealed a bit but came back to bite more like she thought it was rough play or an invitation to bite. I do have a dominant dog collar if that will help.

Thanks again for your help

At 12 weeks old, she has not yet learned what behavior is appropriate. She also does not understand corrections, so using tools or worrying about damaging drives should not even enter the equation (unless you want to gamble on a "come to Jesus moment" with a three month old baby). If you are going to keep this dog, you are going to have to make her stop biting the children. I would seriously consider tethering the dog to myself and doing a crash course on groundwork/pack structure.

The other option is to forfeit her while she is young enough to be helped by a different handler. If you wait too long to decide that it's not a good fit, the dog will pay for it.

JMHO

The method that Bob suggested will only work if you can manage to hold her until she calms, regardless of any resistance she gives.

Again, JMO.

Thanks Duanne.

She is tethered to me 90 percent of time. Forfeiting her is not not an option.

Could you clarify "she doesn't understand corrections" and "seriously work on pack structure". Do you mean she won't understand corrections or be patient with corrections and she well understand things eventually.

Does correcting her when she biting in prey drive stifle it if she it's biting people and not toys?

Is she free to play with your kids?

If they aren't of an age or desire to be consistent then I would only allow them to play together when you are there to supervise (and direct/ correct as needed)

I still supervise my1 y/o youngster around kids. He's great with them but just. Too. Much for a kid under the age of 10 or so. He's past the biting stage of course but will still jump and get over the top excited really quick if the kids start to, well, act like kids.

If you follow the training methods taught here and by many modern trainers, corrections do not come in the early (Teaching) phases of training and development. Most, myself included, feel that a dog should only receive physical corrections if a behavior has been generalized. In other words, once the dog has proven that it understands what is being asked. This is a correction for failure to perform a task, or to perform it correctly.

Not all corrections are physical. There are also behavioral corrections. Sometimes a correction can be a redirection back onto the course by making an adjustment to something in the dog's life, to "fix" a behavioral issue. Holding a pup calmly off of the ground to teach him that biting is not okay is a behavioral adjustment. Behavioral corrections can be necessary at any stage of development if a behavior is going to cause the dog or another being to suffer harm.

In either case, it behooves the trainer to preempt corrections, especially for a baby, by teaching the dog fom the very beginning what you want it to know or how you expect it to behave, and remaining consistent with your training.

Regardless of what drive she is in, biting people is inappropriate. The pup should have been taught bite inhibition at 6 weeks. I cannot and will not advocate physical corrections for a puppy that age. Forget about prey drive. Right now, any physical correction during any state of drive is going to be confusing for the dog and may affect future biddability.

Thanks Duane for the clear explanation. I appreciate your time.

My kids are not allowed free play with dog at this time. Dog is tethered at all times. Last knight we had a good training set with markers and calm behavior around kids. Today she seemed to understand a little more about while on tug.

I refuse to give up. I never had a adult dog with issues. I have never had a working dog but I will be able to post about how great she is with all this training, videos and advice.

Thanks

I want to add... I found Ed article theory of corrections and it has all the issues and answers. It re iterates what some have said but goes into great detail about levels of correction and even gear.

Thanks

 Quote: Daniel.P.Hughes

She really wants to chase my boys as they play which seems to be same issue

Yup that sounds about right. What do you do when she wants to chase them? If you can't engage her or move far enough away to a place where you can; I'd crate her. The frustration of being kept in a stimulating environment where she's not allowed to engage doesn't serve any purpose.
How much downtime does this pup get? Some of the behaviors you describe are exacerbated by over stimulation. Don't underestimate the power of downtime to help a dog to learn to self soothe and build towards self control.

 Quote: Daniel.P.Hughes

She even made my hands bleeds as I was holding still for the out, she just goes to hands instead.

I'm not sure what you were doing here. Have you done any bite inhibition work with her? You want her to learn to inhibit her bite when she puts teeth on humans and then you can work to end the biting all together. Ed gives a lot of great tips about that in the biting article.
You don't need corrections to get her to stop biting. You need a whole lot of patience and even more consistency.
Teach her an alternative behavior to biting while you work on bite inhibition. I taught my pup to lick my hands instead of attack. He picked it up pretty quickly but I have a house full of adults. My last pup was 7 months old before he stopped biting the kids........ Daniel, the place was bedlam and yes there was blood.
Cut yourself, your kids and your pup some slack. You should be enjoying her and not so worried about drive.