Hmmm...only inside...how weird. Well...what if you come in from the outside and redirect the instant he get nervous. There's got to be something triggering him to go into the panick state that doesn't happen outside...it would have to be something with the humans...but I am not there so idk what that would be.

What exactly does he do in the house....pace, pant and drool?

Walls make noise worse. I think they reverberate or something. Personally I can't stand the sound of bass coming through walls. Sets my teeth on edge and gives me headaches.

Kind of a shot in the dark but I might have something you can try. Maybe condition a sound, scent, place, etc. to be calming prior to the noise starting? As in make the sound/scent or lead to the place and then do something your dog finds calming or just positive like a marker or massage. Or use it during a time you know your dog is going to be relaxed like during meals or at bedtime. I know somebody who plays a metronome as a bedtime routine/cue.

Maybe look into massage or T-Touch work? I've never used either but people have said it helps.

It's a tricky problem for sure.

 Quote: Lori Hall

have even tried turning on the white noise machine and putting that by the crate, but he doesn't want to stay in there. He's not used to having the door on the crate, so if i put it back on and locked in him there it might make it it worse?

If he's pacing or wandering restricting their movement can sometimes make them calm down. They aren't able to fall back into that nervous movement pattern so the anxiety diminishes. Mind and body movement are linked. Some dogs will load up from the restriction and really freak but a lot will calm.

Flooding isn't normally recommended but as desensitization doesn't really seem like an option it might be worth doing.

Is he able to approach the source of the noise outside without a reaction?

Cathy's post makes sense to me --- this is what I was describing when I crate Ellie during an anxious spell. She will pace and lick nervously. But shut into her crate she will lie down and self-calm.

Covering the crate with a blanket would also absorb sound and perhaps give him a dark, quiet(er) safe space

As with anything else--you can't *make* a dog settle. All you can do is provide cues and incentives to get them to choose the reaction/behavior on their own. Safe confinement and a minimized "flooding" of the reduced noise may help him realize that nothing bad happens when he hears the outside noise.

In this scenario, I wouldn't expect him to settle immediately--he may freak in the crate at first--but he would be freaking anyway. At least this is changing the current pattern.

Edit: one other thought. What if you just started a campaign to create a noisy household? Multiple times a day you could run the vacuum cleaner, the blender--all the loud mechanical things you've got. Just make "noise" a part of the ordinary routine of the house (because it is and will continue to be). Instead of trying to soothe away something that is real, just change the dynamic to "this is a noisy place and we like it--all the good things in life are still happening, and nothing bad is happening. Motor noises are just part of the household around here."

 Quote: Cathy Goessman

Walls make noise worse. I think they reverberate or something. Personally I can't stand the sound of bass coming through walls. Sets my teeth on edge and gives me headaches.

Kind of a shot in the dark but I might have something you can try. Maybe condition a sound, scent, place, etc. to be calming prior to the noise starting? As in make the sound/scent or lead to the place and then do something your dog finds calming or just positive like a marker or massage. Or use it during a time you know your dog is going to be relaxed like during meals or at bedtime. I know somebody who plays a metronome as a bedtime routine/cue.

Maybe look into massage or T-Touch work? I've never used either but people have said it helps.

It's a tricky problem for sure.

Cathy, when you say 'lead to the place and then do something your dog finds calming or just something positive like a marker or massage', what do you mean by lead to the place? could you give me an example of that idea? I'm a little confused if that sentence is all one idea or a couple of different ideas in one sentence! I want to be clear what you mean because I think it sounds like something to try for sure.

 Quote: Tracy Collins

Cathy's post makes sense to me --- this is what I was describing when I crate Ellie during an anxious spell. She will pace and lick nervously. But shut into her crate she will lie down and self-calm.

Covering the crate with a blanket would also absorb sound and perhaps give him a dark, quiet(er) safe space

As with anything else--you can't *make* a dog settle. All you can do is provide cues and incentives to get them to choose the reaction/behavior on their own. Safe confinement and a minimized "flooding" of the reduced noise may help him realize that nothing bad happens when he hears the outside noise.

In this scenario, I wouldn't expect him to settle immediately--he may freak in the crate at first--but he would be freaking anyway. At least this is changing the current pattern.

Edit: one other thought. What if you just started a campaign to create a noisy household? Multiple times a day you could run the vacuum cleaner, the blender--all the loud mechanical things you've got. Just make "noise" a part of the ordinary routine of the house (because it is and will continue to be). Instead of trying to soothe away something that is real, just change the dynamic to "this is a noisy place and we like it--all the good things in life are still happening, and nothing bad is happening. Motor noises are just part of the household around here."

Tracy, what do you mean by 'minimized flooding of the reduced noise'?

To answer your question, he does not react at all to the noise when he's outside - we walk by the house under construction every single day on our walks, and if there is a power tool being used when we're out walking, even if we stop right in front of that house, he doesn't even seem like he notices!! If I take him out front of our house and he can hear it, not a problem!

During our kitchen remodel, when the noise would start, he didn't want to be in our house, so it's almost like he connects the noise with the inside of our house even though it's half a block away or next door. But if he's outside then the connection must be gone and the reaction doesn't happen!

What would happen if you took a more stern tone .... " STOP THAT pacing, you LIE DOWN!". Followed by a nice meaty bone, if he complies.

 Quote: Lori Hall

Tracy, what do you mean by 'minimized flooding of the reduced noise'?

I'm thinking that a blanket-covered crate would help to cut the decibel-level of the sound--it would minimize it. But I could be wrong about whether it would make a difference.

But being in a closed crate indoors while the sound was happening and being forced to "deal with it" is, indeed, flooding. It would force him to listen to the sound without any ability to retreat, pace, or otherwise control his "exposure" to it.

Gradual desensitizing is usually a gentler, more predictable way to overcome a specific fear. But from what you've described, I wouldn't know how to accomplish that. There's no way to give him "small doses" of the fear to build his tolerance of it. Because you can't predict it--and you can't really control proximity to it (a little closer each day, etc.), because he doesn't show the fear outside.

Flooding is a valid form of behavior modification. It's more traumatic than gradual desensitization. The fear response cannot go on indefinitely. A phobic subject can only be hysterical for so long, and then they will realize that they are, in fact, safe.

 Quote: Tracy Collins

 Quote: Lori Hall

Tracy, what do you mean by 'minimized flooding of the reduced noise'?

I'm thinking that a blanket-covered crate would help to cut the decibel-level of the sound--it would minimize it. But I could be wrong about whether it would make a difference.

But being in a closed crate indoors while the sound was happening and being forced to "deal with it" is, indeed, flooding. It would force him to listen to the sound without any ability to retreat, pace, or otherwise control his "exposure" to it.

Gradual desensitizing is usually a gentler, more predictable way to overcome a specific fear. But from what you've described, I wouldn't know how to accomplish that. There's no way to give him "small doses" of the fear to build his tolerance of it. Because you can't predict it--and you can't really control proximity to it (a little closer each day, etc.), because he doesn't show the fear outside.

Flooding is a valid form of behavior modification. It's more traumatic than gradual desensitization. The fear response cannot go on indefinitely. A phobic subject can only be hysterical for so long, and then they will realize that they are, in fact, safe.

Ah, that makes a lot of sense because honestly, we have tried everything we can think of here. We had a dog some years ago that was terrified of the air compressor in the garage and would hide, shaking, in the bathtub. The Dog Whisperer was just beginning then and for fun I sent in this problem. They actually picked her and we were on that show. I don't go along with all his stuff, but he did show us how to desensitize her to that air compressor and it worked pretty well. But like you said, that was something on our own property, that we controlled, and we could work on that - this is so different.

I'm going to give this a try next time it happens and see how it goes. How long would you leave him in there at a time? how do you determine when to let him out - wait until he seems calm? and what if he does calm after a while and then you let him out and it starts again - put him back in?

 Quote: Lori Hall

Cathy, when you say 'lead to the place and then do something your dog finds calming or just something positive like a marker or massage', what do you mean by lead to the place? could you give me an example of that idea?

I mean that you would pick a spot such as his crate and try to make an association between calming down his mental state and that particular place.

For example, chewing calms a lot of dogs. So the dog would be led to his crate and then given something to chew at times when he isn't already stressed until going into the crate is associated with calmly chewing on something. Then when he is stressed he can be led to the crate and given something to chew. Hopefully this results in him going into the same calm state he's gotten used to going into in that location.