Originally posted by Dan, Cathi Windus:
I spend half of my training time capping the dogs drive.
So, if I send him in, he gets a bite, then how do I get him to have a clear understanding later that he he has to do a call out?

Cathi The dog having high drives is not a problem. The call out is an obedience issue. That can be trained in steps, like throwing a ball a few feet and telling him to heel, or making him come to the basic position after the sleeve has been slipped along with a ton of exercises that you can later incorperate into you training program. You can control that biting with a long-line and prong. After he learns that he must be clean in the blind over a period of time, he will if taught right stay clean. Also remember to vary the amount of barks he must give before a bite. Keep it to nomore then 3 seconds for a while until he catches on. Good luck.

If you are loking for a plan to train the bark and hold , here is my suggestion. He should first getthe basic mechanics of it on the back tie. After you are seeing him learning it and barking and waiting for his bite when the helper moves he should have the mechanics of it. Next go to the blind, have the helper standing in the blind and have yor dog sitting in heel position with a long line on, give the command and slowly feed the long line so the dog is going in slow(you stay put)when the dog is infront of the helper stop feeding the line. At this point it should look just like the work you did on the back tie.When you see the dog has this down after a few lessons you can send the dog in letting the line run freely through your hands and as soon as the dog touches the helper correct him(probably pretty hard)the dog should revert back to the previouse lesson learned and go into the bark and hold. This should work well but you want to first have it looking right on the back tie before going to the blind.Also when you first start doing the blind work dont correct for touching the helper, the dog isnt going to go in and bite the helper first because you are feeding the line very slow.After that is looking right then comes the work for touching and staying clean. It must be done in steps.

Great post David,the dog should by the time u move into the blind have a grasp of the bark n hold.. the line is excellent idea to control the charge on the helper ......I just thought that everyone did it that way.But you did a great job breaking it down stepp by step.While on the post David i assume your helper slowly walks in on the dog as handler holds dog in sit as he barks??
Thats where we started does it sound right to u?
Kathy is right about iso being wired,izzy is'nt as bad but bad enough.Kathy have u started your guy on the post,if u have'nt i'd move back to that.But i for one won't give Izzy a bite in the blind,outside the blind on an escape or backup .
When the dog is called to the heal position its easy enough for the helper to slip out n do either of the bites.

My humble option,for whats it worth..
probably not much

On the DVD of Bernard Flinks, that Ed sent out before Bernards seminar, Bernard talked about the bark and hold. He said that the helper should not walk in on the dog if it was training for high competition,the dog should put himself in a sit and bark.But if it is a dog just training for a title it is ok for the helper to walk in on them.... I was not able to attend the seminar and returned the DVD to Leerburg. Does anyone know if this is covered on any of Ed's tapes? If so, which tape? I would like to review Bernards ideas on this.(and other things I picked up from the DVD)

Jeff, Iso has not had bites in the blind either. I am treating the blinds as obedience for now. I heel him around them, with a helper inside. He gets a tug reward for returning to me as he comes around the blind.He has only associated blinds with obedience, not protection. I am thinking the same as you, no bites in the blind. At least for now.
Get your kneel healed and come to training soon!


Good input from everyone on this subject.

Originally posted by Dan, Cathi Windus:
I am thinking the same as you, no bites in the blind. At least for now.
I'm curious what you feel is going to be the motivation for your dog to offer the hold and bark and to persist in the behavior for a long period? What is going to be the dog's goal, his reward?

hey kathy,

Did the dvd explain what the difference was concerning the high competition n just a title?
kinda curious what his thinking is on this.How is your guy doing on his barking,izz is really raising hell now.One more question izz is biting deep n full but still throws her body into the helper as she is taking the bite,does any one else think this is a problem?I think sometimes it affects the bite she gets on the sleeve.But does regrip.
Jeff McGee

Originally posted by Dan, Cathi Windus:
On the DVD of Bernard Flinks, that Ed sent out before Bernards seminar, Bernard talked about the bark and hold. He said that the helper should not walk in on the dog if it was training for high competition,the dog should put himself in a sit and bark.But if it is a dog just training for a title it is ok for the helper to walk in on them.... I was not able to attend the seminar and returned the DVD to Leerburg. Does anyone know if this is covered on any of Ed's tapes? If so, which tape? I would like to review Bernards ideas on this.(and other things I picked up from the DVD)

Jeff, Iso has not had bites in the blind either. I am treating the blinds as obedience for now. I heel him around them, with a helper inside. He gets a tug reward for returning to me as he comes around the blind.He has only associated blinds with obedience, not protection. I am thinking the same as you, no bites in the blind. At least for now.
Get your kneel healed and come to training soon!


Good input from everyone on this subject. What do you mean that the helper should walk in on the dog or not with a high level competion dog? I am not sure I understand what you mean?

You say that the dog is throwing its body into the helper as it is taking a bite....That sounds like the helper's fault. Sounds like the helper is jamming the dog and not turning at the right time during the catch.If this continues it will affect the bite because the dog will anticipate the collision and slow up and not be concentrating soley on the bite.

Originally posted by jeff mcGee:
hey kathy,

Did the dvd explain what the difference was concerning the high competition n just a title?
kinda curious what his thinking is on this.How is your guy doing on his barking,izz is really raising hell now.One more question izz is biting deep n full but still throws her body into the helper as she is taking the bite,does any one else think this is a problem?I think sometimes it affects the bite she gets on the sleeve.But does regrip.
Jeff McGee Do you mean that the dog is just launching the body without regard to targeting the sleeve and sometimes doesn't center with the bite or bites the under/over side of the sleeve and not the bar? If so, it could very well be a helper problem and poor presentation of the sleeve.

Originally posted by Joseph Jones:
Originally posted by jeff mcGee:
hey kathy,

Did the dvd explain what the difference was concerning the high competition n just a title?
kinda curious what his thinking is on this.How is your guy doing on his barking,izz is really raising hell now.One more question izz is biting deep n full but still throws her body into the helper as she is taking the bite,does any one else think this is a problem?I think sometimes it affects the bite she gets on the sleeve.But does regrip.
Jeff McGee Do you mean that the dog is just launching the body without regard to targeting the sleeve and sometimes doesn't center with the bite or bites the under/over side of the sleeve and not the bar? If so, it could very well be a helper problem and poor presentation of the sleeve. If the presentation is good, it could be a targeting issue if the dog is legitimately missing the correct target, or it could be something else if the dog consistently wants to go to the hand or elbow. Need a little more info.